Has anybody installed a two position shroud safety on a Interarms Mark X/Charles Daly or other Commercial Mauser action?

Tried on of the converted military shrouds and the thread pitch/depth or something must be different, it will only screw into the bolt body about three turns or so(well away from where it should).

I thought this might be covered in the Mauser shop manual, but I must have loaned it out to somebody....

Trying to do this on two different actions, one nearly and one late(one is a "speedlock" the other isn't).

Thanks!

Try the daly shrouds in the mausers...

should be able to lap in
jeffe

I haven't done it but Tip Burns put one on for me and is working on another. One Whitworth and one Alaskan. I got the safeties from Jim Kobe with new shrouds.

I have not had any trouble fitting them. The Mark X's need to have the cocking piece milled back so the lever will function.

quote:

The Mark X's need to have the cocking piece milled back so the lever will function.

How much additional must be removed for one of the late model with the fast lock or whatever you call it?

CD & MKX mausers are not exactly "in spec" with real Mausers.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
CD & MKX mausers are not exactly "in spec" with real Mausers.

Don't tell that to Jeffe, he thinks they are just fine.

Many years ago when one could buy just
the Interarms mauser action, I solved the speedlock problem by using a complete military bolt from a military action. I simply swapped bolts and then sold the military action!

Worked out great for me. Dennis Olson welded
on new bolt handles and Ken Jantz provided
the side swing safties. Timney triggers with
modified levers.

Cheapest way to get a better-than-average
mauser.

quote:

CD & MKX mausers are not exactly "in spec" with real Mausers.

No not exactly. But pretty darn close. While I would take a nice FN over either anyday. I have several rifles built on the MKX and even two on the Daly. I've never had a touch of problems with either. Would I build a super high $$ custom on them. No because the potential resale wouldn't be there. I have swapped parts between both and M98 parts and never had an issue of fit. Only problem I've had is the speedlock moves the cocking piece forward.

Yes, almost a quarter inch.

quote:

Yes, almost a quarter inch

do you remove it all the way around? Or just where the safety engages?

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
CD & MKX mausers are not exactly "in spec" with real Mausers.

Quite true, and then real mausers are not allways "in spec" with themselves..... While working on Mausers, there are always surprices. An "oddball" can be found, even amongst the best ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Poleax:

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
CD & MKX mausers are not exactly "in spec" with real Mausers.

Don't tell that to Jeffe, he thinks they are just fine.

Interestingly enough, I do think most mausers are just fine... and within a range of work required to fit and finish.. but, knowing this is not saying 100% of the parts interchange without effort..

for example, most gentry and dakato safeties, and all lapours (ed says so on his site, and it's been my expereince that they do) , require fitting.. wouldn't be at all surprised that there is a fit difference from commerical to military... which is why I asked if the gent had tried the other way.. daly to milsurp..

Heck, even small things, like brazilian 1908 cockings pieces and firing pins aren't EXACTLY the same as a k98, but you could swap both pieces and make it work, but 1/2 of that pair don't make it.

jeffe

I installed a 3-position La Pour safety on a Mark X for a customer the other day. It seems that the Mark X firing pin is a little shorter than the Model 98. With the main spring in place, you couldn't rotate the cocking piece into place. I had to remove about .125 from the back of the 3-position shrould to let the cocking piece to swing by. No big deal, made the alteration in a lathe.

Mark,
now that's a neat one! You mean when you put the bolt together and where assembling, the shrod'cocking piece wouldn't come back far eough to rotate and lock, and you had to trim the shroud, right

I had the same thing happen with a 1936 mexican action and bolt... on a dakota, if I remember right (might have been a gentry) and had to do the same... no WAY as I cutting off the nose of the cocking piece

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by Mark_Stratton:
I installed a 3-position La Pour safety on a Mark X for a customer the other day. It seems that the Mark X firing pin is a little shorter than the Model 98. With the main spring in place, you couldn't rotate the cocking piece into place. I had to remove about .125 from the back of the 3-position shrould to let the cocking piece to swing by. No big deal, made the alteration in a lathe.

That is really interesting. I have a Mark X here that I installed a Blackburn Trigger and screwed a Dakota 3 position right on. The threads were a bit tight, but with a bit of lapping the thing went right on and fits fine. Bolt cocks fine. Trigger works fine.

quote:

I installed a 3-position La Pour safety on a Mark X for a customer the other day. It seems that the Mark X firing pin is a little shorter than the Model 98. With the main spring in place, you couldn't rotate the cocking piece into place. I had to remove about .125 from the back of the 3-position shrould to let the cocking piece to swing by. No big deal, made the alteration in a lathe.

A lot of the newer main springs DO NOT have the ends of the spring ground flat. Also they will have several tight coils on each end. The military springs were never like this and most times that is the problem, not the sleeve.
Then you put a heavier spring in the action, to try to speed lock it and it gets worse and then you may have to trim the end of the sleeve.
This is the only time I have had to ever modify a sleeve and I have worked on a few over the years.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

Hey Jim,

Given the choice of altering the factory spring, which might effect the lock time, or machining away the cosmetic radius at the end of the shrould, I choose the shrould's cosmetic radius.

Mark.

Check the ends of the mainspring first.

There is a GOOD reason both ends of the mainspring, (striker spring) is ground flat.
This is so the tail (end) of the spring will never push out when under tension.

Old Mauser did it right the first time and many copies have shortcutted when they can.

I remember from the good old days being a service center for many companys. Savage had a recall on the 110"s in the late 70's and Ruger also had problems with the 77 short action, in the early 80's. The mainsprings were not ground flat on the ends and they had LOTS of misfires because of the dragging, and binding of the tail inside the bolt recess.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

Ramrod 340

You only need to remove it from the contacting surface, the top. I do it in the mill with a carbide end mill and then finish it in the surface grinder.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Try the daly shrouds in the mausers...

should be able to lap in
jeffe

How you propose to fit a two position side swing safety to a Daly shroud? That would be a good one.

quote:

Originally posted by Poleax:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Try the daly shrouds in the mausers...

should be able to lap in
jeffe

How you propose to fit a two position side swing safety to a Daly shroud? That would be a good one.

thanks for pointing .I wouldn't have thought anyone would have read that particular approach. The gent stated he couldn't get the milsurp 2 positions shrouds on the daly bolts, and I suggested he try that the other way.. daly shrouds on mauser bolts.

I didn't suggest cutting a 2 position safety on the daly shroud. I suggested trying the daly shrouds into the mauser bolts... this is to test the thread tolerance.

you would then know if one set parts are using one end of the tolerances while the other set use the other

We've all run into mausers that use all the range of allowed tolerances, and this would be a quick, east, fast test to see if there was any point in trying to lap the 2position into the daly bolts.

Of course, if one has a thread chasing tap for bolts, which brownelss, sells, http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.as...M-98+BOLT+SHROUD+TAP
he could just chase the threads.

jeffe

If lapping was the intended idea then might I suggest using the shroud that is to be permenent to do the lapping with. That way you end up with a nice fit between parts. So use the military shroud to lap with so you get a nice tight but freely turning fit. The safety will function better that way. There will be less slop between pieces.

Poleax,
cool, agreed

I just tried a Dakota safety on an old FN the other day and it is the same way. You would have to mill some off the shroud for it to turn and lock. I put it away till I can run it up to a gunsmith friend who has the proper machinery to make it easy.