I'm looking for some advice/input on Mauser low scope safeties.

I personally like the original military style too bad it won't work with a scope. The Buehler style looks good but I don't like the idea of the two piece screw together design. I like the Dayton Traister design better but not its looks. am I worrying too much about the two piece design?

Then there are the Mod 70 styles. Which of these is prefered?

I also saw an Alex Imports 3 position Mod 70 style safety & shroud that seemed fairly inexpensive. Any opinion on these?

Thanks,

-M

The Mauser-type safety actually locks the firing pin, but cannot be operated silently. It can be replaced with a trigger safety, which can be silent, but does not offer the security of a locked firing pin.

Most of my rifles are Sakos -- a modified Mauser design, and use a trigger safety. Since I'm comfortable with the trigger safety, that's what I believe I would use if redoing a Mauser.

The best looking M-70 type Mauser safety IMO is the one offered by Grisel or Dakota. Gentry also makes as nice one, so does Precise Metalsmithing.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the two-piece system on the Buehler-type safeties. I've used them for years on both Springfields and Mausers without problems. I do prefer them to the Mark II safety.

If money isn't an object (sometimes true, sometimes not) the many 3-position Mod 70 types are the best. I have a couple of PME's that are very nice.

The only problem I've encountered with the Buehler-type is with low rings. It frequently places the safety lever (in the "safe" position) uncomfortably close, if not touching, the scope.

Another option is the two-position side-swing lever installed on the existing shroud. This option falls roughly between the price of a 3-position and the Buehler-type. It's a nice compromise if a budget is important.

GV

Find yourself an early FN bolt shroud with the safety on the left. It is the finest low scope mauser safety ever devised. There are lots of them laying around in parts drawers, often still in the white.
Also, in Europe they have been using the original bolt safety with scopes for about 100 years. They never fell for that "low scope" crap the gunwriters fed us during the '60s. It is a lot more comfortable to hold your head up when you shoot.

Early Parker Hale bolt safeties also will work, they are pretty much the same as the FN safety. - Dan

Starting with Dakota 3 pos model 70 safety

first off, it's a little rough, and in the white, and VERY sharp edges (typing with bandages on finger tips.. just kidding)

First, the instructions in the safety are THE definative guidelines, but I'll share this with you do it your selfers. WARNING missing the angles means you have to have new parts, so your milage may very. FURTHER, this is lots of high strength springs, so if you don't know what you are doing, taking the bolt apart, then stop. DO NOT DO THIS if you are in the least uncomfortable.

I used machine tools, except for the last part, but i see NO reason you could not do this with a good dremel.

components you will touch
bolt body.. this is the biggest part...

firing pin.. if you need to know this, just stop
reading

striker- that's the rear most part of the bolt, that you unscrew to remove the firing pin

1: on the striker, on the RIGHT side of it, you will cut a 25degree cut, starting from the "inside edge" .. that's pretty clear in the documentation

2: on the firing pin, (this is very clear in the doc) you cut a 45degree to allow for fire pin blocking.

3: the "tricky" cut is the bolt body.. and the simplest. On the REAR EDGE of the bolt body, mark a vertical. Then the center of the "cut" is .2750 from the top edge (in the docs). You then cut a half circle 1/8" diameter to the EDGE. I plunge milled it, but you can EASILY Do this with a carbide dremel. This is to block the bolt in place

The biggest risk, in my opinion, would be cutting the initial 25 degree too low (like 45).. that would not allow the firing pin block to happen.

KurtC,

The reason why none of my rifles sport those type of safeties is because they are *LOUD*. The concept is a good one. However execution was poor.

z1r
You've got an email.. and my interest in alex imports.

jeffe

Any safty can be polished out until it makes no sound what so ever....

I like the Dakota, the Grisel and Precise are pretty hard to come buy lately...Brownells has the Dakota.

Since the old original FN saftys are so good, does anybody want to trade me 3-pos. safties for a couple of them...They are hard to find. I will even trade two for one...

I really like the looks of the Gentry, but when push came to shove I had a Timney with side safty installed on my new custom WHICH THE UPS MAN JUST DROPPED OFF!!! Can you believe it, a gunsmith who delivered earlier than promised.

I sold off every FN safety on ebay. Usually yielding about $65 a safety and then coughing up another $20 into the kitty and getting a PME 2 position.

[ 12-13-2002, 02:14: Message edited by: alvinmack5 ]

Can the original safety be put back on if you would like to down the road?

I have an original Jeffereys that I would like to replace the safety on because I want (need) to mount a scope on it.

I disagree that it is better to have your head up higher like the Euro Mounts. If a rifle stock is fitted for use with open sights than it will not fit if you have to raise your head an inch or more to center a scope.

The FN safeties do not require any modification to the cocking piece, you simply swap shrouds.
You can even keep the FN shroud in place and put the original flag safety on any time you wish. Takes only a couple of minutes.

Some of the Parker Hale and Santa Barbara safeties were similar, but they used a hook on the safety to hold it in place, instead of notching the shroud as on the FN's.

Ray,
If you have any spares, let me know. I'll be happy to buy them from you.

[ 12-13-2002, 03:09: Message edited by: KurtC ]

I too haven't had any luck finding the FN safety. If anyone has a source please let me know.

I guess for now I'll try one of the two position flag types since I am on a budget at the moment.

-M

z1r

You can try one of the Santa Barbara style ones. They work similar to the FN, except you don't notch the shroud. A hook on the safety holds it on your original shroud. They are usually on E-bay and AA for less than $10.

I like the PME, both 2 position and 3 position. Either one you CAN install yourself with a dremel tool, the 2 pos. being a major pain in the ass to do though. Jeffe gives a pretty good description of how to install a 3 pos. -- it really isn't that hard. Just go very slow, test fit often, and start with a very SHALLOW angle off the side of the cocking piece. I have looked at the Alex Imports ads several times -- but for ~$30 more, I'd go with the PME / Gentry / etc.

There is also another safety that works just like a Dayton Traister Mark II, but has a different shaped lever, looking more "mauser-ish" in my opinion. It's the Eastridge, sold by Brownells. It does require slotting the bolt shroud just like a D-T I believe.

My favorite though, is the good old flag, on a gun with open sights.

Todd

One thing to add on 3 pos. PME installation -- an even simpler method of marking the correct spot for the locking plunger relief in the back of the bolt, is to:

Screw the shroud onto the bolt and til it locks in place, with plunger, spring, and lever removed.

Now take a drill bit that will JUST fit into the plunger hole on the shroud -- can't remember what size it is -- chuck it backwards into a hand drill.

Put the bolt in the receiver and close it; the hole for the plunger is now lined up properly on the back of the bolt -- insert drill bit, spin for a few seconds to polish a marker spot on the back of the bolt, and presto, you know exactly where to make the relief. If needed, you can color the back off the bolt with permanent marker to leave a better polished spot.

To actually make the relief, use a Dremel abrasive cutting disc, and a 1/8" carbide straight bit. The carbide bit will tend to slide around, so use the cutting disc to make a 'starter groove.' I think I made the recess about 1/8" plus a hair or so deep.

I hope this makes sense.

Todd

Ray
You have a PM.

Well, I can tell you the following.

I now own two Mausers.

The first one became a .280 Ackley Improved and, not knowing better, I had my 'smith put on a Buehler. This, however, became something of a pain in the ass, initially, when I wanted to mount my 6.5-20x Weaver Grand Slam as low as possible. I got it done, but it required some creativity with extended bases or rings (I can't remember right now -- bases, I think).

On my second Mauser, which became my .375 H&H Magnum, I had him put on a Bold, which I like "A LOT" more. Straight forward, straight back. No fuss about scope mounting.

Based on this limited, I realize, experience... I would submit that if you want to mount a scope low, to get a good cheek weld, you consider abandoning the flippy-floppy, up-and-down type safety and go with something that is of a forward-backward design.

Good luck.

Russ

Russell,
I have been wanting to put a Bold side safety trigger on one my Mausers. My question is, does the factory bolt shroud and safety have to be replaced or can it be left as is and just not used? Thanks.

z1r

Here is one of the left side safeties that doesn't require slotting the shroud.

Safety

Craigster: Just leave the original, flipped to the left, and use the Bold. Understand, I don't build them, I just shoot them... but that's how it ended up, presuming my gunsmith did it right. Knowing what I know now, I'd go with another Bold.

Oh well. Hindsight.

Russ

I've got a Zufall (spelling?) 3 pos safety for a Mauser 98. Anyone ever heard of this brand and is it any good? - it looks very well machined.
GG

KurtC,

Thanks for the pic. Now I know what everyone's talking about.

I suppose that eventually I will try one of each just because I have so many mauser projects in the works.

I think that when money isn't such an issue I'll try the Three position Mod 70 style. For now, I think it's flag style.

-M

z1r,

You might want to contact Jim Kobe here on the boards. I believe he still sells the complete bolt schroud fitted with a PME 2 position safety and blued for about $85 (don't quote me, ask him first). They install on your mauser in just a little ovre a minute depending on how proficient you are The picture below should give you a idea what they look like. (minus the peep sight and the engraving).

http://www.hallowellco.com/Ottmar_B58807_close_right.JPG

[ 12-13-2002, 21:25: Message edited by: alvinmack5 ]

GG375,

Where did you get the 3Pos from ...local or USA?

Personal mail would be fine
c_huxley@bigpond.com

Regards

Craig
Brisbane Aus.

Hux

Sorry mate - having trouble with sending you a personal Email so will post answer here.

Bought 3 pos safety (and a Blackburn bottom metal) privately from a guy in Vic or NSW - can't remember now. The bottom metal went on a custom .270 on a Brno 21 action and the 3 pos will probably end up on a 1908 Brazilian Mauser action I have.

GG

GG375--

Your 3 position safety was made by Joe Zufall of Golden, Colorado using Jasper Rayborn's design and fixtures. There's none better. I think Joe quit making those about 1985 when Pete Grisel set up to do it on a CNC and cut the prices in half but retained the quality.

Jasper Rayborn designed that safety while at Colorado School of Trades in 1976. Some of the fixtures and processes were developed there. It was the first available true M-70 type safety for the M-98 available to the public.......for $300!!

Jack

Is that the safety that's been marketed by Precise Metalsmithing? It looks like they're going out of business. Have you heard anything about that?

toomany tools--

The Zufall works the same as the PME, Grisel, Dakota, Gentry and others, but not exactly the same in looks. They're all a copy of the M-70.

Jim Wisner has taken another job and is cutting way back on production. PME will no longer be in business but Jim will still operate and build parts under his own name.

Jim has also sold some of his product line to Ed LaPour and others to continue production of popular, needed, but seldom bought parts.

To build custom gun parts takes EXACTLY the same tools, equipment, skill, and time as parts in demand by the millions. The market is comparitively miniscule for gun parts but the expense is the same. It's a TOUGH business to stay in for that reason.

When you get a chance to buy a well made part, BUY it. Sooner or later you can use it or trade it for something you can use.

Think of the tooling that must be *made* in order to build just one M-98 three position safety....and the machine tools you have to have and the skill it takes to run them.....then the machine tools it takes to drive the special tools you just made.

One M-70 type safety, made in a prototype machine shop, would cost close to $5,000 *IF* they had one to copy! Design, testing, heat-treat, and finishing would double that.

[ 12-17-2002, 00:02: Message edited by: JBelk ]

Thanks for the info Jack.

GG

Jack

Do you think I could cast on out of JB Weld?

I mean "one" not "on". I better start previewing these things.

The likelyhood of the "Alex Import" bolt shrouds timing up correctly on a surplus Mauser BOLT on a scale of 1 to 10 is about a 1. THEY ONLY FIT THEIR OWN BOLTS CORRECTLY.

I am getting a lot of emails for the FN safties I had..Kurt got them and I have no more at this time.

Well I do have one more but you would have to pay $1650 for it, but you would get a very hard to come by FN original 375 H&H with it.