I have a friend who has an inexpensive rifle in Africa. The only value it has is tied to the fact that it is licensed in his name(never easy or cheap to do in Africa)

The rifle is a stainless Browning A-Bolt in 416 Remington Mag.

It has never extracted fired cases reliably and often fired cases need to be knocked out with a cleaning rod(not good when hunting elephant and buffalo).

After inspecting fired cases it is pretty clear that the rifle has a bad chamber. The cases that were fired in this rifle have a step in the neck. The portion of the neck adjacent to the shoulder measures about .449(pretty close to spec.). About .100” from the shoulder/neck junction the neck steps down(more of a taper than a step) to about .438”. So the neck measures about .438 for most of its length..

With the brass being .013” thick in the neck, the internal diameter of the neck is about .412”.

The rifle did close on loaded cartridges, so obviously the brass has sprung back a bit.

With the rifle stuck in Africa(no easy way to get it here for a repair, and it would have to be “imported” because it has never been here) and there being no gunsmith in country, I am wondering if you guys might have an idea of how to ream the neck.

My original idea was to have a custom reamer made(solid on the belt) similar to the reamers that were used to convert 458 win mag to 458 watts. In other words, there was no cutting surface on the belt of the reamer so that the reamer could be run in until it stopped without affecting headspace.

I am thinking that the reaming only the neck is the way to go as the rest of the chamber seems fine. I am thinking of calling a couple of reamer manufactures and finding out if someone can make a reamer that has a solid belt and will only cut the neck.

Oh, and this is going to have to be reamed by hand.

Do you guys think this will work, or do you have a better(simpler) ideal?

Reamer manufacturers sell just neck reamers. Very common, and handy, to have an assortment in ones shop. You can purchase just a neck reamer and run it. With the proper pilot and extensions one could conceivably do it by hand, with the barrel attached to the action. Of course it is always much cleaner with the barrel spinning in a lathe.

I have used a common chucking reamer to extend the neck area to eliminate excessive freebore in factory barrels. The casts have come out clean. You can buy chucking reamers in any size. Any machinist could do it. I am not a gunsmith but I would do it in a heartbeat. Kenny

quote:

Originally posted by sicero:
I have used a common chucking reamer to extend the neck area to eliminate excessive freebore in factory barrels. The casts have come out clean. You can buy chucking reamers in any size. Any machinist could do it. I am not a gunsmith but I would do it in a heartbeat. Kenny

What does the neck diameter have to do with freebore? That is a throat function

quote:

Originally posted by sicero:
I have used a common chucking reamer to extend the neck area to eliminate excessive freebore in factory barrels... I am not a gunsmith... Kenny

You eliminate excess freebore by either setting the barrel back and moving just the body forward, or, seat the bullet out further. Give it some thought. And, welcome to the gunsmithing forum!

I had the very same problem with a step in the neck. I ordered a neck reamer and T-Handle from Pacific tool and it cured the problem right away. I wasn't sure exactly what dimension the reamer should be, so I sent in a chamber cast and Pacific Tool figure out the exact right size.

quote:

Originally posted by sicero:
I have used a common chucking reamer to extend the neck area to eliminate excessive freebore in factory barrels. The casts have come out clean. You can buy chucking reamers in any size. Any machinist could do it. I am not a gunsmith but I would do it in a heartbeat. Kenny

I would guess he means using a chucking reamer to extend the length of the neck. That chamber will then accept a longer overall case length, and leave a shorter throat.

Then, if cases are formed from longer brass (such a using long magnum brass to form short magnum cases) it could effectively shorten the throat enough so that bullets seated in the longer neck would be able to reach the rifling.

Of course., in the instance of he .416 Remington Mag, it would be difficult to find longer brass to make the cases from. Still, a person could "spoon" the cases longer, then trim them to the length of the longer-necked chamber.

No?

Jim
There is no place where I said increase the neck diameter.
Alberta Canuck didn't have any trouble figuring it out.
I could have done a whole write up on extending the neck cutting 0.250 from the end of the chamber catching the metric threads and extending them and using .223 brass in the short 204 chamber and cutting the dies and opening the neck of the dies due to the .223 being heavier brass than 204. The case neck is now 0.235 long similar in length of a .222. Am I going too fast? Kenny

Oh lord one of those guys

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Oh lord one of those guys

If you can dish it out you have to be able to take it also. Kenny

quote:

Originally posted by sicero:

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Oh lord one of those guys

If you can dish it out you have to be able to take it also. Kenny

I guess I am not reading what you are trying here. If you ream the neck area out to make it larger, how in the hell will that change the throat length? I have enlarged chamber necks using the neck reamer but the throat remains untouched. As Westpac says, you need to set the barrel back and alter your original reametr to shorten the throat. By extending the neck, all you will accomplish is seating the bullets deeper into the case for the same over-all loaded length. What am I missing here?"

quote:

all you will accomplish is seating the bullets deeper into the case for the same over-all loaded length. What am I missing here?"

Jim as I read what he is doing is using a longer parent case. Like a 223 case to make a 222 then ream the neck longer so he can then leave the the case longer. Say make a 222 case that is 2.26" long. Other case dimensions the same. Then provided he has a long enough magazine or loads single he will leave the OAL of the loaded round longer.


Key issue is his rifle somehow allowing him to use the longer brass and seat the bullet out long enough to reduce bullet jump.

quote:

I have used a common chucking reamer to extend the neck area to eliminate excessive freebore in factory barrels. The casts have come out clean. You can buy chucking reamers in any size. Any machinist could do it. I am not a gunsmith but I would do it in a heartbeat. Kenny

Jim, Read this and point out the words where I said make the neck larger.
I used that use of a inexpensive chucking reamer to make the neck area the size and length needed only as an example that a common reamer would do what he wants. Kenny

quote:

Jim, Read this and point out the words where I said make the neck larger. Kenny

The question in the orginal post was about expanding the neck using a neck reamer. Jason had a step down in his neck.

Then your post concerned using a neck reamer to remove excessive freebore. Different issue. So some of us were still trying to fit your answer into the original question.

Going back and rereading after AC mentioned it I can see how you are removing freebore using longer brass and a longer neck. A lot of us old guys are a littel slow and to me your first post left me confused as well.

Normal procedure is to set the barrel back and recut to remove freebore. Using a overall longer case to remove freebore won't work in many applications due to the magazine length.

Jason,

What I would suggest is to have the owner make a chamber cast or 3 and mail them to you, and then you can bring them to a reamer maker and see what they suggest. It might be a bit more hassle initially but since the gun is going to be fixed in the bush I think it would be the simplest approach in the long run. I'm sure the owner can find plenty of sulphur locally, which would be the only material e needs for a cast.

Sicero,
Your point is not valid in this instance. The 416 Rem is a SAAMI case. One does not need to make a longer necked version. The neck just needs to be brought into spec.

There have been more bad factory chambers in the past five years than I ever heard of in the 50 prior to that! Of course in those days the factories had a lot of trained gunsmiths working there instead of common labor.

Original question ;

quote:

Can you ream only the neck of a chamber?

NO any careless person can ream near anything !. I for one would thoroughly enjoy reaming a couple of Politicians with the largest reamer imaginable ; However that's not what the question pertained too was it !.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
The question in the orginal post was about expanding the neck using a neck reamer. Jason had a step down in his neck.

Then your post concerned using a neck reamer to remove excessive freebore. Different issue. So some of us were still trying to fit your answer into the original question.

Going back and rereading after AC mentioned it I can see how you are removing freebore using longer brass and a longer neck. A lot of us old guys are a littel slow and to me your first post left me confused as well.

Normal procedure is to set the barrel back and recut to remove freebore. Using a overall longer case to remove freebore won't work in many applications due to the magazine length.

It's not that we're old or slow, it's just that lengthening the neck in the chamber so you can reform brass in order to seat a bullet closer to the lands is a bit unorthodox, meaning not the usual way one would reduce freebore. Certainly not unsafe, but something I wouldn't want to inherit.

quote:

It's not that we're old or slow, it's just that lengthening the neck in the chamber so you can reform brass in order to seat a bullet closer to the lands is a bit unorthodox, meaning not the usual way one would reduce freebore. Certainly not unsafe, but something I wouldn't want to inherit.

Heck I was just trying to be nice to the new kid. Maybe it was just me I didn't have a clue what he was talking about until AC gave his explanation. I agree while not unsafe I wouldn't want to get one set up that way.

My view if it isn't set up right correct it.

All I was trying to say in the first place was a proper size chucking reamer would clean the neck up.
I would have been glad to try explaining what I was talking about without jumping on me like I was a complete idiot.
The 72 yr old NEW Kid. Kenny

It's not that we're old or slow, it's just that lengthening the neck in the chamber so you can reform brass in order to seat a bullet closer to the lands is a bit unorthodox, meaning not the usual way one would reduce freebore. Certainly not unsafe, but something I wouldn't want to inherit.[/QUOTE]


It is unorthodox, but depending on how far out in the bush a person is, Rube Goldberg may be a very practical approach sometimes.... particularly if there are no gunsmiths or machine shops handy, OR if government regulations governing farmed out gun work are a Royal PITA.

Shipping a chucking reamer is relatively inexpensive, usually isn't a legal problem, and can be used without much additional tooling. And if done carefully it would make it possible to hand ream a chamber neck to a uniform diameter for its whole length, where and if that was needed.

Though I wouldn't opt to inherent such a modification for reducing freebore if I had better choices and if freebore was the problem, I wouldn't be afraid of it either. It should not produce a dangerous chamber, as it won't increase headspace or decrease freebore for factory spec ammo.

I've certainly seen similar types of "make-do" shade-tree gunsmithing and other equipment repair work out well for people who didn't have a lot of other options. Done a little of it myself when a few hundred miles from the nearest tarmacked road in the Canadian north.

Was interesting to think about anyway. Thanks, Sicero, and welcome aboard.

Thanks guys. Again this forum is a wealth of info.

Sicero, thanks for the idea regarding the chucking reamer. That just might work. I am thinking of trying that, I just need to figure out how to guide the reamer. I already have a few crazy ideas.

To everyone else: I called PT&G and spoke to Dave(he is a great guy, BTW) and was informed that PT&G sells a reamer stop that that would allow a neck reamer to be guided and run in a predetermined depth.

I really don't know which of the two options I will go with, but I believe either will work.

If you guys have any other ideas, just let me know.

I have a guide made from delrin that I fit into the back of the reciever of mausers to lengthen throats by hand. Dont know why you couldnt do the same for the browning.

Reaming throats and necks can and are done all the time. There are several ways to do it. One is to make a bolt race bushing faced off 90 degrees to the bolt race on the back side. Buy a PT&G UNI Throater, PT&G Micrometer Adjustable Reamer Stop, and a piloted Necking reamer. Use a scope base screw to lock the bushing. Use the MARS to adjust for the reaming depth.
Langshot

FWIW, I'd sure be looking for a way to get Browning to repair the barrel under warranty......assuming it was purchased somewhat locally there in Africa.

Oh, BTW.....I agree with Jim.....no amount of neckreaming will effect throat length except to lengthen it.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

Oh, BTW.....I agree with Jim.....no amount of neckreaming will effect throat length except to lengthen it.

Vapo -

If you are talking about throat length relative to factory length ammo, you are right.

BUT, if you lengthen only the neck, you then have what is essentially a wildcat chamber, made for a longer overall case length where the body of the case is the same as the SAAMI standard, but the neck is longer and the overall case length is longer.

As the added portion of chamber neck is cut from what used to be "throat", the remaining throat is shorter.

Of course you have to make brass of sufficient overall length (and neck length) to fill the new case length of the chamber.

If you just use factory length brass the effective "throat" is still just as long as it was had one not cut the longer neck area in the chamber.

But if you cut a chamber neck some amount such as .025" longer for instance, then still seat the bullet the same distance into the longer brass neck as you did in the factory brass, you have shortened the throat by .025" also.

Have done it numerous times myself in setting up cast bullet benchrest rifles for my own use in competition, and it works just fine.

To see an example, look at a print of a factory chamber drawing (including throat). Note how long the throat is. Then extend the neck by whatever amount of length you want, marking the new length of the case neck on the drawing with a pen. Then note how much shorter the throat is in the drawing.