It's an early carbine in 8x57 S. Firstly, it's hell to close the bolt on a 8x57 Mauser cartridge. I mean HELL. Bore is perfect; accuracy is non-existent. If I push a bullet (.323) into the muzzle....a heck of a lot of bullet remains un-pushable outside the muzzle. Second....and "just because I had it"....I tried a 8x57 JR cartridge in the chamber ....bolt would not close, and when I tried pushing the bullet into the muzzle, much of the bullet (.318) length remained far outside the muzzle. It seems to me that if a barrel is .323, then a .318 bullet ought to penetrate into the muzzle. PLEASE....if any of you folks can advise me .....I would REALLY appreciate it.
Thanks.
Alex

Use the back side of your caliper to measure the groove diameter (largest dimension) of you muzzle. Due to caliper in-accuracy, don't worry if the number is a little larger/smaller than standard IE if you measure .320, it's a .323 ETC.

Also, have a chamber cast made & measured (with a micrometer, NOT a caliper).

BTW The "bullet in the muzzle" trick ONLY works with US M2 Ball ammo on a US military 30cal rifle.

I think your problem is that your rifle is chambered for 8x56MS.

time for a chamber cast with cerosafe.

If yours is a 1923 rifle or earlier, it is most likely 8x56ms. Somebody may have tried to rechamber it, but if they didn't modify the rotor it won't feed worth a damn.

If you have a post 1924 rifle, then there is an odd chance it left the factory as an 8x57S. The odds increase if the receiver says made in Germany instead of Made in Austria.

I'd put money on it that it's an 8x56MS. It's even a chore to size 8x57 Mauser down to 8x56MS because it's the solid web/head part that is smaller on the MS round.

What about 8x60?

I don't actually know the dimensions on that one, but know it's really close too.

8x64 is the most confusiong one. A 9.3x62 necked down to 8mm.

I agree with this. Check the proof marks and compare them to the info you can get from the german gun collectors' association http://www.germanguns.com/questions.html . The mannlicher collectors' association is now defunct but the german guys are very helpful.

Check if the ammo you have fits the magazine correctly - taking 4 or 5. If it is a 8X56MS rifle the 8X57 ammo will not fit the mag & feed from there. If the bore is in good shape & the over all rifle is tidy, you probably have a real gem that needs to be look after!

quote:

Originally posted by KurtC:
If yours is a 1923 rifle or earlier, it is most likely 8x56ms. Somebody may have tried to rechamber it, but if they didn't modify the rotor it won't feed worth a damn.

If you have a post 1924 rifle, then there is an odd chance it left the factory as an 8x57S. The odds increase if the receiver says made in Germany instead of Made in Austria.

FWIW my friend George the Knifemaker rechambered his 1908 8x56MS to 8x57JS and had no feeding issues. I had another 1908 8x56MS rebored to 9x57 Mauser with no feeding issues. Neither rotor or magazine was altered (!?)

Also FWIW I've owned and fired several old 8mms, both the 1908 M-Ss and the 1888 Commission/Haenel rifles, and all of their grooves measured 0.327"-0.328". Like I say, this info is FWIW and as always YMMV.
Regards, Joe

I have a 8x56 MS carbine; 8x57 IS ammo goes magazine very well but when you try to feed it, it jammed aprc. in the middle of the lenght of case. That´s why the 8x57`s case diameter is very little bigger in the rear end than 8x56`s.

And I think there is a small difference in shells lenght too.

I would imagine filling the magazine with 8x57, if the rifle is indeed an 8x56MS, and working would depend on the condition of the magazine, how well it was fitted, and how worn it was. I would expect then that some would feed the 8x57 ammo such as such as J.D. Steele's does, and some would not.

Best thing to do is take it to a knowledgeable gunsmith and find out what it's chambered for before the rifle somehow gets ruined or someone gets hurt. Better safe then sorry. If I had a spare 8x56MS case I would mail it to you. Perhaps another member can do that (sized one preferably) so that you can try it in your chamber.

Headspace gages would tell you a lot...I have 8x57 gages if you want to try it

Concerning the bullet, if you try to push any 8mm bullet into the bore of an 8mm rifle, it won't go in without some pretty aggressive persuasion (read tap with something like a plastic mallet). The bore diameter is less than the bullet diameter by twice the depths of the lands.

My carbine has in fore bridge text "8 MM NORM". When talking about M-S 1908 it means 8x56 MS but if the same text is on M98 Mauser the meaning is different.

Rifle is marked 8x57 JS ....which "should" mean 8x57 Mauser. If anyone has a single empty 8x56 MS case, I would be happy to purchase and pay postage to me......and/or return the case after I check its fit in my chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by conifer:
Rifle is marked 8x57 JS ....which "should" mean 8x57 Mauser. If anyone has a single empty 8x56 MS case, I would be happy to purchase and pay postage to me......and/or return the case after I check its fit in my chamber.

Do you have any pictures of this rifle? Pre-1923 rifles weren't marked with a cartridge, only a model number (unless it was rebarreled or required a proof from an foreign importer).

A 8x57 Mauser case (once-fired with difficulty) in this Mannlicher.....resisted chambering again. I ground the rim down 1 or 2 hundredths, and the case chambered perfectly. Does this mean that
(1) rifle is a 8x56 MS?
(2) rifle is a 8x57 with a short chamber?

Numbers taken from actual samples
8x56 MS (3 samples)
Rim .459-.463
Base .462-.464
Shoulder .418-.424
Base to shoulder 1.793-1.803
Base to neck 1.902-1.907

8x57 Mauser (7 samples, various arsenals/years)
Rim .465-.470
Base .466-.467
Shoulder .425-.428
Base to shoulder 1.800-1.815
Base to neck 1.931 1.938

quote:

Originally posted by JIm Yackley:
I think your problem is that your rifle is chambered for 8x56MS.

I had a guy sell me a 8X56MS, not 8x57S for $200. It was well used, but still mechanically excellent with perfect bore. I also got 500 rounds of Remington 8X57 Mauser Ammo with it cause it was a broken gun.

I got a 2 box of correct ammo. Shot a two inch group at 100 yards....sold the gun + a box of Hirtenberger ammo for $1000 [it was a takedown]. Sold the 500 rounds of Remington ammo for $375.

Best MS deal ever. Problem was I didnt even realize he was selling me an 8x56MS when I bought it. He said it was a rebarreled 8X57......?????With matching serial numbers?????

Sounds like his receiver top doesnt say M.1908 on it as it should to be an 8X56MS, but that caliber was sold in other rifles later that were not 1908s. It also could say 1900 on the top of the receiver and then have imperial eagles on right side of action or barrel...that is a different animal. I had on of those in 6.5X53R Dutch, but it was a Schoenauer not an exposed clip Steyr Mannlicher from Dutch Military.

The only chance it is an 8x57js is if it was a 1924/25....That will have the M.1924 right on top under the original stamp.....otherwise it is a custom barrel and I read of some barrels after WWII having a few threads taken off so there were not in a military caliber and thus making them an 8X56MS or reamed out to be an 8X60.

model and calibre