An issue came up for a close friend of mine with the ATF recently. During a "routine" visit his agent asked why he was not registered with ITAR? He was informed he would have 30 days to register and would probably be fined for the last 18 months that he had not been registered.

I am an 07 manufacturer and I had never HEARD of ITAR before he asked me what the hell it was.

I have emails and phone calls out to my contact agents with the ATF, but I am wondering what experiences others have? A friend of mine up the road used to have an 07, manufactured 3000 plus firearms a year. Imported and exported military weapons. He closed out his license two years ago, I gave him a ring and he had never heard of ITAR before.

Anybody have any experience with this?

A few things my friend sent me:
http://pmddtc.state.gov/registration/wmr.html

Defense article by their definition include any firearms and any component of ammunition.

I "thought" the ITAR was for international transport.

Paul,

You must have been posting while I was editing. My understanding was it only has to do with import/export, however if you look through the website, ITAR registration is a "prerequisite" required of all manufacturers regardless of whether they want to import or export.

The legalese is all above me.

I am anxious to hear what my ATF agent gets back to me with.

I am not sure why a person that does not export would need to be ITAR compliant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I..._in_Arms_Regulations

I was told by the guy at the "ITAR office" that they want all 07's to register so they'll know who is licensed to make parts that are regulated if exported. I asked "why don't you just ask ATF for a list of 07's instead of making a small business like me pay $2250 a year?". His response was "uhh....". After a short conversation it boiled down to they want the money. That's it. If it was important they would be after all of us but it's not, they just want the money and that's why some of us get pushed harder than others.

So is it a requirement all 07s must follow?

Adam

quote:

Originally posted by ab_bentley:
So is it a requirement all 07s must follow?

Adam

That's what they say/want but I know a few that aren't ITAR and aren't being pushed. I also hear stories about some that are being pushed short of threatened like stated above. Just to keep from being harassed it would be good to register but for a small shop like us it would cause us to raise our prices to cover that money. That would cause a negative effect on our sales because a lower price is all we can offer until we can get our name/reputation built up. The Feds don't care how many businesses fail and employees get cut as long as they get their money.

Gun control by regulation when they can't get it by legislation!

FWIW..
I was told by the ATF directly that it was not recommended to pay the ITAR fee. That there was no ITAR enforcement division that could make me pay it. I was told that they can threaten but really can't do much if I don't pay.
Based on this recommendation I did not pay it. I have not been contacted by anyone about it since. This being said, I am small enough I don't attract much attention.

From a very good friend of mine that just started a business making AR's and AR parts:

Yes, anyone, 07 or not, that makes what can be classified as a defense product or component there of must be registered with ITAR. For example, a machine shop that is contracted to make AR15 bolts for another company need not have an 07, but they must be registered with ITAR.

I can get away with it right now because I am only doing R&D work, but before you sell item 1 you made, you must have in your hand the ITAR document which is just filing out a form and sending a check in. Also, if you are an 07 who doesn't actually make anything, but you contract with someone to make a part, both must be ITAR registered.

The consequences for not being ITAR registered are nasty with civil and criminal penalties. As such, people who think they won't do it and just file bankruptcy if called are fools because bankruptcy does not get you out of civil fines and penalties.

ATF has nothing to do with ITAR, it is the US State Department who has control over it and the agents that show up are FBI and US Marshals.

The $2250 is the base fee and if your revenue is over a certain amount, the fee gets higher and higher… it used to cost less, but the US Govt has kept increasing the fee over the years.

Actually for me, it will help sort out the riff raff because my mfg pricing will not only require minimum orders, but copies of their 07 and ITAR documents. I will also required that mfg have product liability insurance which will weed out the idiots who happened to get an 07.

Im not sure all your information is correct concerning parts manufacturers, at least according to the folks I spoke with at ITAR; Firearms branch and registration branch(DDTC) and the ATF.

But then again, I am just one of those idiots who happen to have an 07.

Once I get the documentation in hand I requested I will know more. I will post an update once I get responses from my inquiries.

quote:

Actually for me, it will help sort out the riff raff because my mfg pricing will not only require minimum orders, but copies of their 07 and ITAR documents. I will also required that mfg have product liability insurance which will weed out the idiots who happened to get an 07.

Short sited thinking any time one thinks that government regulation is good for getting rid of competition normally ends up getting bitten by it in the long run also.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Actually for me, it will help sort out the riff raff because my mfg pricing will not only require minimum orders, but copies of their 07 and ITAR documents. I will also required that mfg have product liability insurance which will weed out the idiots who happened to get an 07.

Short sited thinking any time one thinks that government regulation is good for getting rid of competition normally ends up getting bitten by it in the long run also.

Kinda what I was thinking as well, sometimes a person doesn't have the money to start out at the top and has to work their way up. Or, just wants to test the waters, and their knowledge and skill, before jumping in with both feet. You never know why a person does things but I'd bet in their mind it's a good reason.

My Daughter complains about people driving fast and I tell her to let them pass because you never know why, they may have had Mexican for lunch and need to get home, or their Mom may be in trouble, or they may just be an asshole. You never know.