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| one of us |
Hey guys.........I was just wondering......With all the new, fancy stuff floating around when it comes to spiffing up a rifle, is ther anyone who still likes a simple, classic, maybe even a stock factory look? I have a Remington 721 that is in great shape and have had several people tell me that I need to do this and that to it, but I disagree. I like the looks of the refinished walnut stock and a the old 6X Leupold on top. Would like to hear your thoughts on this.....maybe some pics too??? I just hope I'm not alone. Thanks for sharing. | ||
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| one of us |
I like the lines of older rifles. In fact, I like Remington's old 721 so much that my future brother in law is going to give me his 300 H&H as a wedding gift. Sounds like a pretty nice fella, huh? | |||
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| one of us |
When Monkeys Fly......... ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
My dad had a 722B you could ajust the trigger to 6 oz with out trouble. Nice gun I saw no need to change it. His grandson enjoys it now. | |||
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| one of us |
I have a Remingtn 721 in .30-06 that I bought in 1953. Had it converted to left-hand action and never bothered to change the stock or to fill the un-used right-hand bolt slot. Still has the original Weaver K-4 scope on it. Still shoots great. But I have been thinking about getting it restocked. Maybe next year. | |||
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| one of us |
Wyocowboyshooter- I'm not too worried, you still have 8 months to come to the correct decision. -Gib | |||
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One of Us |
I'm very happy with my Remington 721 in .300 H&H. The original stock was fine for iron sights but I restocked it to use a scope. The Monte Carlo has walnut root wood for foreend and pistol grip cap. It's full length glass bedded and the barrel is free floating. 200 gr Swift A-Frames shoots about an inch and sometimes less. Functions are flawless. Wish It was CRF!!  | |||
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| one of us |
Gib- Would you settle for an H&R instead? ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
If the stock is made out of nicely grained walnut(plastic stocks don't count), why would anyone want to do anything but have it be pretty. Or in the first place.(Getting that disgusting plastic crap off a Remington stock comes to mind) It's your rifle and nobody can tell you what you must do to it. Rifles should not be shiny. They can have a sheen but no shine. Oil finishes only. No plastic or that Urethane crap. | |||
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| <allen day> |
In reality, I don't have time to play games by getting mired down in nostalgia or by becoming overtly distracted by cosmetic considerations. For serious, modern, real-world international hunting that comes at today's price, I'll take a rifle with a properly constructed and bedded fiberglass stock bedded to a properly blueprinted action which is fitted with a modern barrel, and finally topped by a quality variable power scope any day of the week. AD [ 10-31-2003, 23:48: Message edited by: allen day ] | ||
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| one of us |
quote:In that case why not just go to the butcher's shop? ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| <allen day> |
I'm sure you think that's a very cute and brilliant comeback, but all you've accomplished is to miss the whole point that I was trying to make. Good grief! This isn't about hunting MEAT for meat's sake, this is about hunting trophy animals on what are often very expensive hunts that are conducted under a wide variety of weather conditions. To illustrate, over a twelve-month period I've use the same rifle (fiberglass stock) for extremely wet sheep hunting in Alaska, then for dry-weather mule deer hunting in Oregon; wet-weather elk hunting in Oregon; cool and semi-wet deer hunting in Texas; semi-wet spring bear hunting in Arizona; dry-weather hunting in Tanzania; then dry-weather pronghorn hunting in New Mexico. No change of zero thru it all. For such diversified use, good synthetic stocks are more stable and durable than wood, and that's the plain, unvarnished truth. AD | ||
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quote:That's a good one! I like it. A properly prepared wood stock can be every bit as impervious to weather and POI shifts caused by it. And it looks so much better. Some of the best hunts I've had were the ones where I netted no animals. I would have liked to and it would have been icing on the cake but I enjoyed them no less just because I didn't get a trophy. | |||
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allen day: can't argue with your position for someone who is fortunate/wealthy enough to hunt all over the world. Just remember, there are a lot of guys who enjoy hunting "normal" deer, close to home, with a with a nostalgic old rifle. Different strokes for different folks. Doesn't amke either one wrong... | |||
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| one of us |
Allen, Let's face it, all the hunting we do is "playing games". Some play the game by pretending it's serious business. Others play the game by taking a nostalgia trip. Some like to have to latest in gadgetry. Some wear polyester fleece. Some like to wear wool. Back in the 70's, when I first started messing with glass stocks, I often thought I should make myself a good glass stocked hunting rifle. Something that could really take a lickin' and still work. Never got around to it though and it didn't affect my hunting in the least. To a certain extent we all hunt for fun and the type of rifle we use adds to the fun whether it is an old classic or the latest in high tech. I like those old style rifles and carrying them and shooting them adds to the fun. I don't think of it as being mired down in nostalgia. More like maintaining a connection with my predecessors. This is my way of enjoying a game which I play in a more limited fashion than the global hunters but which I enjoy just as thoroughly. I won't ever run up much of a score but I won't lack for memories either. Regards, Bill. | |||
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| one of us |
Couldn't have said it any better myself, Bill. | |||
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| <allen day> |
In many ways, I don't understand "old school" logic. Back in the late 1940s and '50s, Weaver scopes, Model 721s and Model 70s, etc., were considered "new school", state-of-the-art equipment for that day, and many of the guys who had grown up shooting lever action Winchesters and Marlins, etc. disliked THAT new wave of rifle technology as well. A fair question for that time would have been: 'Back when your lever-guns were the newest and latest thing, how did THAT technology become acceptable to hunters who grew up with front-loaders and breech-loading single-shots?' The same mentality carried thru to this day. The old state-of-the-art, 1950s-era equipment is acceptable, but current state-of-the-art equipment is not. It's as if all progess stopped right after WWII or thereabouts. Amazing! I don't buy the old-shool claims that rust-blued metalwork and oiled-walnut is just as stable, weather-resistant, and trouble-free as modern, fiberglass-stocked stuff. My experience is to the contrary. And evidently the target shooting, military, and law enforcement communities would concur, based upon what they're using these days. Even in the slow-to-change big game hunting community, it doesn't seem to matter where you go in the world, the movement has been to top-end fiberglass stocks and weather-resistant metalwork. The guys who are still ordering fine walnut-stocked rifles (yes, I'm one of them) would appear to be mostly collecting those rifles, but hunting with the 'glass guns. Bill, ALL hunting is about memories (not meat; not trophies), and the memories can be just as dear if they're been procured via the use of fleece clothing and 'fiberglass' instead of 'wool and walnut'. They certainly are for me. AD | ||
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"The old state-of-the-art, 1950's-era equipment is acceptable, but current state-of-the-art equipment is not." Allen, no one said anything about acceptable. Wyo simply asked if anyone enjoyed hunting with the "classics". Lets face it, under most conditions, with the properly prepped rifle, wood stocks and blued metal will get you through. Sometimes its nice to go huntin' with your grandads (or dads) rifle. Regards- Gib [ 11-02-2003, 18:59: Message edited by: Gib ] | |||
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| one of us |
Allen, I agree that a "modern" glass-stocked gun with a stainless action and barrel with the best scope money can buy is without a doubt more weather resistant that an "older" gun with a good piece of wood and a blued metal. I will no doubt one day want to put together such a gun, but right now, while going to school, I am having a blast playing around with the older guns I have. Especially after I took it to the range yesterday and found that it will shoot sub-MOA 5-shot groups! If it were a Model 94 with Duct tape on the pistol grip, I would be hanging on to it as well,if it were shooting that well. | |||
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I spent some time thinking about all of this classic stuff while I was bedding one of my teflon coated stainless rifles into an H-S stock. Here's what I came up with: Fellows like Allen should be commended for their dedication to hunting and their choice of the most appropriate firearms. Guys who like to hunt, but like guns even more will make the exact opposite sacrifice. More guns, less time in exotic locations. It's what they like, their choice, and they are to be commended too. And then there is me. I love to hunt, and love my guns. This does tend to put a fella between a rock and a hard spot. ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} So, if I am hunting locally for the ever present whitetail, then it is time for nasalgia to take over. However, if I am able to save up and go on a real 'adventure', then I guess practicality would take over and out would come something as stable and worry free as possible. So, I guess it really is "to each his own". Regards - Gib Maybe some day I will have hunted around the globe so many times that it will be more worthwhile and fulfilling to take a true classic firearm to distant places; even if it does require more effort to fill a tag. Time will tell! | |||
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quote:Doesn't your sister want him to play with guns? | |||
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quote:Sometimes ya' gotta know what you want and go for it. I'm a sucker for big chrome shift knobs whether it's a '57 Fuelie or a Rem 721. The 721 won in a poker game in the bar of the Limpia Hotel in Fort Davis, Texas is at the smith right now getting a last round of changes to make her mine. Bedded, floated, trigger job, Leupy 2.5-8x36, oil finish, checkering, ebony palm shelf, BDL bottom metal and whatall; makes that chrome knob look GOOD. When we stripped the varnish off last year to put on the oil on the wood low and behold a touch of feather was there! The old gal looks nice now. Yeah it's H&S stocks for high dollar travel hunts but the 721 is prime for Texas whitetails. | |||
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quote:I think that stems from your own unique interpretation of "old school". Advances have certainly been made in the gun industry, and the products they deliver to the hunting community. I question whether all of that is "useful enhancement" in hunting situations. My brother and I started using scopes back in the late 50's and early 60's. There were some good scopes and some bad scopes available at that time. And I bought some cheap....and bad scopes. It is difficult to buy a truly "bad" scope now..........regardless of the timeless arguments about the relative merits of Burris, Leupold, Weaver, Bushnell, etc....... quote:It's not that new state-of-the-art equipment and philosophy of accuracy is unacceptable........ it's just not a premise I'll ever embrace as being absolutely necessary in my applicable hunting situations. I won't use a plastic stock or a free-floated barrel because they leave me cold asthetically. I've never found a legitimate need for either. I shoot a little trap. I've seen people do credible work with a Ljutic Space Gun.......but I wouldn't have one in my gun cabinet. Townsend Whelen's "Only acurate guns are interesting." is quoted a lot. By some of today's standards, Whelen owned and shot a lot of distinctly uninteresting rifles. He also killed a lot of game with those uninteresting rifles. As did his contemporaries. I like guns. I like to work on them. I like to build them. I like to hunt with guns I've built. It enhances the hunting experience for me. My hunting partner has no such affection....... he'd borrow a gun, any gun, to enable him to hunt. quote:And I maintain that margin of stability, weather-resistence, and accuracy won't make a useful difference to me. I won't spend big money on a barreled action and stuff it in a plastic stock with a gap in the barrel channel large enough to stow your lunch in. I don't care how many one-hole groups it is capable of punching in paper. quote:I think the above three groups have less positive influence on hunting guns and hunting philosophy than any other inside the "gun fraternity". My opinion, but not exactly one developed in a vacuum. quote:I agree. I'm just a "wool and walnut" guy. GV | |||
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Well--shucks!!!! I just happen to like both! I had a fellow leave a 721/270 Winchester with me to clean and just give it a once over. Walnut stock was dinged,cheape 4x scope, blued finish was thin, about 65%, been in/out of a pick-up and I don't believe it ever saw a gun case. Just a 60 year old workin' gun. After cleaning all the crap/crud out of the barrel I found a BIG pit about 4" down the barrel from the chamber. Well, thats the bad points----then I put it on the shootin' bench and commenced to fire a 3shot group with Remington factory 130gr ammo. 1-shot to foul and then the 3-shot group....the group measured 0.951....Oops! I returned the rifle back to its owner and told him if he ever decided to sell the rifle---please let me know. My S&W Model A (Husqvara action) will be stocked in walnut "Classic style", no other changes. My 788 Remington was rebarred to a 6.5/08 AI on a PacNor #5 contour stainless, 25" w/ Holland Brake and stocked in a McMillan fiberglass, Winchester Target style with the swirley Red/Black/White colors. Left out the clip and made it a single-shot.......As I said, I like both..... Ol' John | |||
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| one of us |
Here's mine which works for me. It makes me smile when I put it away even if I've had a blank. This photo was taken today which happens to be fine but the same photo on Wednesday would have shown a lump of clay. A wash down, oily rag on the metal and a touch of linseed on the stock and hey presto. It is a state of the art roe stalking tool - the fact that it happens to look nice does not detract from it's efficiency nor does the fact that a rifle is made of plastic and stainless necessarily mean that the hunter is any more dedicated or the tool any more efficient. [url= http://"http://www.hunt101.com/?p=69409&c=500&z=1"]  [/url] | |||
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| <eldeguello> |
I too like classic style rifle stocks, but my understanding of the 721 configurtation is that it was as plain and inexpensdive a design as it was possible to come up with. Everything about the 721 says "cheap" including the stamped TG/floorplate and stamped rear sight! My first HP rifle was a 721 in .30/'06, because it cost $85.00 and I couldn't afford the $120.00 for a Model 70! ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} | ||
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| one of us |
Allen Just a curiosity on my part. If you were to start from scratch to build your ideal hunting rifle, what would you use? I'm primarily interested in your choice of action as well as choice of stock and on a secondary basis your choice of caliber? I'm not particularly interested in barrel vendor choice nor scope. I mention that so you won't waste your time. Thanks in advance. Reed | |||
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one of us |
Think I'm with Grandview on this one. Wool and walnut sounds more than OK to me. Give me a walnut stock, some rust blue steel, and a classic Rigby or Oberndorf stock any day and I'll be more than happy. I really don't care if my plastic fantastic "friends" think that I'm outdated. Pettson | |||
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| <allen day> |
Reed, I'd prefer to use an extensively reworked Model 70 'Classic', controlled-feed action and a pillar-bedded McMillan fiberglass stock plus a good custom barrel that's no greater than 24" in length. My ideal chambering for general hunting is either the .300 Win. Mag. or .338 Win. Mag. Any sort of well-built custom rifle package that incorporates these general parameters will take in a great deal of hunting - as in 98% of the world's big game animals.... AD | ||
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| one of us |
Allen, I have a variety of Enfield based hunting/varmint/BR rigs with my favorite being chambered in 308 Norma/Hart match grade barrel/Fajen thumbhole walnut stock. Other "hunting" calibers would include 243/06 in the same general configuration along with a 338/416 Rigby that could be converted to hunting config...it's a bit heavy right now and is essentially a target rifle. I recently came across another Enfield action and have entertained thoughts of working up a similar hunting rifle and I've strongly considered the 375 bore. The case would most likely be the H&H Improved or perhaps the other that I always forget off the top of my head...JDS or JLC??? Anyway, as I've been pondering this new rifle I find myself thinking that I sure wouldn't mind the same sort of action in SS such that I could make a rifle that is much more weather resistant. This is a long-winded way of fishing for whether or not you had a SS action you liked. I guess it could be construed that you may like the "new" pre-64 M70 in SS but I have a sneaking suspicion that you weren't thinking of that... Anyway, just exploring options. Thanks for the previous and hopefully future reply. Reed | |||
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quote:My faith in Fajen thumbholes is restored! Got ONE Fajen thumbhole left to finish-out. And it's gonna be nice. An atrocious laminated green color but will be painted for F-Class comps. Been looking back at me from the bone pile since Fajen closed their doors in 1996. Got great deals on two really nice wood stocks as part of their closeout. The other is a big old Magnum Walnut that's being built into a .458 Lott. This thumbhole had me beat as to what to build. But the big foreend looks like a contender for F-Class front rests. Got a M700 stainless action, Lilja 6.5, Jewell etc going to Mike Bryant for him to work his magic. Jeff Hicks already worked the bolt and will do the 8-40 conversion as soon as it's barrelled. Then wrap the metal into the Fajen thumbhole for solid comfortable shooting. ETA 1Q04. Old School? New School? My School. | |||
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