The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing 8-06 MauserGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 8-06 Mauser | Login/Join |
| one of us |
Why not reload the 8x57 as it is. Factory loads are like 32 specials. The Turks loaded their 196 gr ammo to 3000 fps ( measured). That is extreme but shows the potential. You will be rloading the 8mm/06 anyway. Spend your money on a set of dies, and a chronograph. Good luck1 | |||
|
one of us |
Carcano, the 30-06 is based on the 30-03 ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | |||
|
| one of us |
Fine, Lar45, that was the correct first half. *drumroll* You have won a free voyage to North Korea ! ... And the second part of the answer will win you the trip back ;-). Carcano | |||
|
| one of us |
The 8x64 makes a lot of sense, with the availability of low cost S&B ammo ($15) and Bertram brass ($13), but does anyone actually know of an 8x64 chamber reamer? | |||
|
one of us |
quote:Maybe you should reread my previous post before you tell me I'm wrong. Since you failed to read I'll recap. I'm more in favor of the 338-06 because it is a factory round, one of which I've seen in the stores. I have yet to see either of your highly acclaimed cartridges in a sporting good store yet. This is correct. Where in my post did you see that I saw a box of 8mm-06 in a store ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} What I really get is the fact that this wasn't an arguement until you tried to force your European cartridges down our throats. Dave2of5 already had decided on the 8mm-06 which, whether it would be my choice, or your choice was irrelevant, it was his. One I would make as well if I hadn't had more of a leaning towards the 338-06 "factory round" for reasons that I've already explained. I assure you that acting like a pompous ass will not strengthen your credibility, or legitimize the use of European cartridges in the U.S. for custom or factory rifles. For resale alone, a cartridge that is identifiable to the general shooting public by it's mere name alone is much more apt to sell than one of metric origin. These are not my opinions, simply the facts. The 30-06 is one of the number one selling cartridges of all time. It has taken probably more game than any other cartridge conceived. So, if you chamber anything that has ?-06, it's bound to be recognizable to the average Joe. IMO, if you're going to build your custom rifle around the basis of getting factory ammo, I think you're missing the point of a custom rifle. It's a total waste not to be fully prepared to reload your cartridges for your custom rifle. If you're only interested in shooting factory ammo, buy a factory rifle. There are cases in which you could make acceptions, but if you're jumping into a bullet size of 8mm, be prepared to reload to obtain the load, and ultimately the gun that's right for you. | |||
|
| new member |
What a wonderful thread !!! Of all the firearms sites i have looked at I have never seen the 8/06 mentioned [ or the 33/40 action ].I have hunted with a 33/40 in 8/06 since 1968, jackrabbits, coyotes, whitetails, muleys, elk. It has never let me down, have worked up loads with 150gr.,170gr., that shoots to same point of aim at 150yds.What a wonderful little rifle, and hunting caliber. | |||
|
| one of us |
One charitable hint: If you are so deep in a hole as you are, you better stop digging. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} quote:Fine for you. You have just stumbled into the wrong theatre however. Let me guide you to a .338 thread, gently... quote:Ah yes. That's why the 8mm Mauser with its famous name should sell so much better than the .30-06, which after all would be just numbers - according to *your* non-logic. *ROTFL* You are indeed very apt at shooting your own leg. Hint: try to draw slower, and keep the finger off the trigger. quote:Which is why no expensive custom rifle (e.g. the Safari Club tombolas) are *ever* built for, nor *ever* used with factory cartridges. Hehe. Once again, you shot yourself with your non-argument, and inadvertantly refuted your own error. You are amusing. Now go back to the beginning of the thread, and ruminate it. Duly. Slowly. Attentively. Before you'll make even more of a fool of yourself in public. Carcano | |||
|
| one of us |
Carcano, the US developed a 30 cal cartrige in 1903 dubbed the 30-03, then in 1906 they changed to a lighter bullet and upped the pressure to arrive at the 30-06, the case dimensions are the same. They may have shortened the throat, I don't recall just now. They did this developement after a run in with the 7x57. So Maybe the 30-06 was takeing the 7x57 and lengthening it to get better long range performance and useing the familiar 30cal. The Springfield 03 took much from the M-98 design. Do I get to come home now? The original question about the 8-06 project seemed to be to use the already existing 8mm barrel so a 338-06 doesn't work here. Wheather an 06 based or foriegn cartrige wouldn't matter as long as he reloads for it. Domestically the 06 cases can be found everywhere for cheap. On loading the Speer 170's in my 8x57 I didn't get to 2700fps without sticky case extration useing 4064. The paper ballistics of the 8-06 or 3200 Hawk show a significant improvment over the 8x57. My cartriges of the world book is loaned out at the moment. What kind of velocity is the 8x60 or 64or .... ofering compared to the 8-06 or 3200 Hawk? The straight case wall on the Hawk is supposed to be great for extended case life. I haven't shot one though. | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:Your first posting here, Jerry: and just in the middle of an argument. So, be very welcome, be seated, have some popcorn, and enjoy the show. :-) The 8mm-06 is not so frequently mentioned today because it has lost favour and appeal, and time has gone over it (as over many a good factory cartridge, too). It was a very popular wildcat after the war, born out of a sheer necessity and thriftiness, and it has proven its virtue very well, as you also testify. Many a family may still have such an old bringback Mauser, sporterized and reamed out to 8mm-06, inherited from Grandpa or Granduncle. These sporters are a piece of history themselves. The need for conversion is not there anymore, their resale value is low, but that should not lead one to despise the guns that are. No new conversion will reasonably use this old "emergency wildcat", for the reasons explained before , but let's for the moment stop here and examine your experiences: While the 8x57 IS is fully equivalent to the its descendant, the .30-06, and is even slightly superior with heavier bullets, your hunting feats show very well where the virtue of the longer 63 mm case lies, and how the 8mm-06 can hold indeed some practical edge over the 8x57 IS - namely when using lighter bullets, and achieving higher velocity and flatter trajectory, reaching out a bit more. Also, I suppose the recoil in your lightweight handy gun is more manageable with these lighter bullets - with a 200 grains or 220 grains, I imagine it would be quite uncomfortable ? Let us know a bit more, Jerry: what bullets are you using ? What loads proved to be the most accurate ones ? Regards, Carcano | |||
|
| one of us |
Carcano, If you weren't such a moron, it would be easier to have a discussion with you. Your reading comprehension is still far lower than necessary for you and I to debate, but I'll give you another try. Dave2of5 has a Mauser in 8x57. He want's to rechamber it to 8mm-06. Since he is not sure whether or not the barrel needs to be removed to perform this operation, the first answer should have been, yes he does. Are we still on track here Carcano ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} Your suggestion was a factory European cartridge of which we have seldom access to. It would hardly be considered anything other than a wildcat here. I hate to be the guy to break it to you, but you don't see those cartridges for sale anywhere, but out of a handful of specialty catalogs. That hardly warants the decision of chambering your cartridge selection over a wildcat based on the most popular cartridge in the states. My suggestion was for the 338-06, of which bullet weights and styles were more readily available, and provided a little more punch than your 8mm recipes. This of course would mean that the barrel would need to be replaced, a detail that evidently I needed to spell out for your lack of reading comprehension. The barrel replacement should be considered regardless of the caliber to ensure a quality chamber, and accurate rifle. My opinion was, and still is, just my opinion, not the gospel that you are so eloquently spewing upon this forum, and forcing down whomever will listen. I didn't stumble upon this thread in search of 338-06 debate, and therefore I won't be needing your gentle escort. quote:I'm sure that the above comment had to have been quite amusing in your circle of idiots, but do realize how many people here in the United States refer to the 30-06 as merely the 06?? Any shooter, hunter, outdoorsman, or housewife is familiar with that term, but I'm sure you can coach us more on our own culture than we know ourselves correct. quote:This truely explains the depth of your ignorance. Maybe we should take a poll of custom rifle owners who don't reload. I'd say the number would be pretty damn low. By the way, how do you think we came about some of the most popular cartridges in history It's called wildcats ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} Let's name a few, shall we 270 Winchester 280 Remington 243 Winchester 22-250 Remington 7mm-08 25-06(Holy Cow!! ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} what do you suppose that was named after )Now, I know I missed something, but aren't we on the "Accurate Reloading Forums". Maybe you should migrate over to the "Factory Don't No Shit About Reloading Forums". You'd sound much more impressive. | |||
|
| one of us |
Here's an affordable option for your project http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=11428914 M-98 FN take off barrel 30-06 for $50 | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:I believe it was the 7x57. U.S. troops went up against it during the Spanish-American War in 1898. Seems that the U.S military learned a few things from the 7x57 and the Mauser rifle as compared to our .30-40 and the Krag rifle. I've read that Springfield Armory basically "scaled up" the 7x57 to come up with the .30-03 (and, of course, the later .30-06). -Bob F.  | |||
|
| one of us |
Nope. You merely won the trip to South Korea, not all the way back :-). But the direction was right. Both the .30-03 and the .30-06 were based on the 8x57 (M/88 and later the S-Gescho�). Similarly, the M-1903 purloined a lot from the M-98. And Brenneke took up the .30-06 idea (honour the US where honour is due ;-)) when he lengthened his native military 8x57 case to 64 mms (first came the 8x64, then the 7x64). Regards, Carcano | |||
|
| one of us |
Here's a link to it's history which seems to be pretty accurate from what I've read and heard over the years. 30-06 history | |||
|
| one of us |
Pretty much what has been said before. "The .30-06's rim diameter followed the example of the 7x57 Mauser (which was the inspiration for the .30-03) and measures .473 inch. " I guess you could say it was the 8x57 as it was the parent case for the 7x57. Again, what are the ballistics for those 8x? compared to the 8-06 or 3200 Hawk? My book is still loaned out. | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:The 8x64 should be a notch above the 8mm-06, because of its larger case capacity. The 3200 Hawk I do not know. C. | |||
|
| one of us |
The case capacities of the 8mm-06 and the 8 X 64, according to Ken Howell's book, are both 96-97 gr (total capacity), so I don't think there would be any ballistic differance on that account (although this would vary from one brass manufacturer to another). The 8 X 64 may be loaded to higher pressures, which would account for some gain. The Ackley improved version on the 8mm-06 would probably gain you a 2 to 3 gr increase. The 320 Howell gives a 10% increase in case capacity, again according to Mr. Howell. The 8 X 57 has a gross case capacity of 87 gr, while the 8 X 60 measures 91 gr. The 8 X 68S on the other hand, has a capacity of 122 gr, which puts it just a little behind the 8mm Rem Mag (136 gr) and a fair bit behind the 8mm Ultra mag and 8mm Imperial Magnum (about 147 gr). There is also a couple of wildcat 8mm's on the 378 Wby case and 416 Rgby case, which would be slightly larger then the Ultra mag and Imperial offerings. Basically, if loaded to the same pressures, and with identical barrels(good luck on that one), the bigger the boiler, the more powerful the locomotive. All measurements from Ken Howell's book and articles, and measured in cc's of water. FWIW - Dan [ 08-29-2003, 18:43: Message edited by: dan belisle ] | |||
|
| one of us |
Oh, and as for the actual velocities, I can only answer for the ones I own. The 8 X 57 (I have two, a war time 98k and a commercial 96 Husky, both with 24" barrels) gives me around 2700 fps with a 170 gr bullet. The 8mm-06 Ackley Improved (again I have two, again 24" barrels), gives me 2700 fps with 195-200 gr bullets. My 8 X 68S isn't finished yet, so I can't say (I'm hoping for 2900-3000 with 200 gr bullets). In my 8mm Rem Mag (Rem 700 with 26" barrel) gives me 3000 fps with 220 gr Hornadies. Other then these, I have to go by the manuals and articles. Again, FWIW - Dan | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:Edited after re-thinking and checking it: One would have to verify that for oneself; I won't trust the book only. Of course, I will agree with you that even an existing capacity bias of one cartridge over the other (more likely the 8x64 over the 8mm-06) will make little if any difference on the game - but some reloaders are number fetishists. Regards, Carcano [ 08-30-2003, 13:43: Message edited by: carcano91 ] | |||
|
| one of us |
Dear Dan: it is interesting (and very educational) to compare the pressure-velocity ratio in the 8x64 S. I am quoting from the fine French reloading manual of Nobel Sport / Vectan (there is an English edition for the non-polyglots): For the Nosler Partition 200 grains, Tu 5000 propellant, S&B factory cases: Grams______V-2,5m (8.2 ft)______Pressure in Bar 3,45_______782 m/s (2566 fps)___2851 3,52_______798 m/s (2618 fps)___2989 3,65_______832 m/s (2730 fps)___3363 These are the old copper crusher figures, not piezo quartz. CIP max is 3500 / 4050 bar, same as with the .30-06. Regards, Carcano | |||
|
| one of us |
If I wanted to change my 8x57, I would look at an improved version,8x57MAI. Or just shoot for the moon and go Gibbs.. I should apologize, this is slightly off topic.. [ 08-29-2003, 19:27: Message edited by: Mauserkid ] | |||
|
| one of us |
I don't know Carcano, the 06 case has a diameter at the base (not the rim) of 0.4707 vs. 0.4705 for the X64. Shoulder diameter is 0.4410 on the 06, and 0.4272 on the X64. Length fron rim to shoulder is 1.9480 on the 06 vs. 2.0394 on the X64. A seeming advantage for the 8 X 64, but the 06 has a rim thickness of 0.0490 and the X64 has a rim thickness of 0.0512. Therefore the actual differance to shoulder would only be 0.089, and the 06 case is larger in diameter, at the base, shoulder, and shoulder neck junction. I don't see any real case capacity advantage for the 8 X 64, at least not one that brass variation wouldn't equal or exceed. Pressures on the other hand, would certainly be higher for the X64, as many European cartridges are loaded to higher levels then their North American cousins. Thanks for the load info though, I'll be keeping my eyes open for an 8 X 64S to add to the collection. - Dan | |||
|
| one of us |
Thanks, Dan. Your reply made me look up and verify the data again. Always a good thing . You see ?: I even daringly underwent the high risk of learning something new and modifying my previous opinion and statements ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} - something what many US contributors in this thread would never be caught dead doing.Here are the CIP specs, juxtaposed: ___.30-06___8x64 L1 49,49____51,80 L2 53,56____55,59 P1 11,96____11,95 P2 11,20____10,85 So, you might be right: it is possible that the smaller cross-section area at P2 makes up for the 2,5 mms gain in length. Have not calculated it. As to the massive base area, any difference would be pure speculation so far and cannot be based on rim thickness - one would have to measure the distance to the inner case bottom; and a comparison of case weight (especially of a military .30-06 case to a civilian 8x64 case) would also be telling, as far as interior capacity goes. The velocities I have already posted before. Best regards and thanks ! Carcano [ 08-30-2003, 13:40: Message edited by: carcano91 ] | |||
|
| one of us |
Right back at you Carcano. I always get some food for thought from these discussions (and now an itch for an 8 X 64, just "because"). Thanks - Dan | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
"You really don't get what the argument was about, do you ?"