On a Remington 700, when the bolt is opened should it run the entire length of the angular camming surface on the receiver?

Been reading a bit on the subject, probably over thinking, but I'm trying to figure out if a bolt on my Remington 700 is timed properly or not. I don't have any extraction issues, more so just overthinking it.

No it pushes away and doesn't run the entire length

If you're talking about the extraction cam on the rear bridge, NO and YES. In a perfect world the bolt handle would clear the back of the receiver bridge by about .003 inch until the handle met the extraction cam. At that point the handle would ride back over the full length of the extraction cam.

In the real world the bolt handle only runs up a portion of the extraction cam. Remington has obviously shown extreme disinterest in correcting the tolerance problem that leads to this. Their logic in this is 55 years of history which has shown that it really makes no difference unless you happen to have a really rusty, dirty or rough chamber. Or if you are in the habit of running loads to the point where the primers are trying to flow out of the firing pin port hole.

As far as paying someone $150 to delaminate the bolt handle and then braze it back on? I tend to side with Remington and I think it's a waste of time and money. But, if your OCD is keeping you up at night, by all means do it. It certainly won't harm anything as long as the cocking cam is properly re-heat treated and it's done by someone competent enough to pretty it back up again.

I'm not a big fan of TIG or MIG welding the bolt handles back on to the body unless you buy an after market, machined handle to put on. The factory handles I believe are sintered or cast and don't weld well to the 4140 bodies. I have replaced a number of the welded ones over the years and the welds all show the common problem of a crystalline joint between 2 dissimilar metals that didn't bond together well. Better to stick with high temp silver solder. If done correctly you will never break it off.

OP,
Yes, when timed correctly the handles extraction cam surface should contact/run the entire length of the receiver's extraction cam surface but ALL Remington bolts & handles are TIMED into BATTERY & not for primary extraction.

Inducing harmonics to a silver brazed joint will allow your bolt handle to JUMP off the bolt body.

My experiences differ from the above posted replies.

For those that say yes, it should ride the surface, is that with or without the firing pin assembly installed?

Appreciate the info.

Not something to care about as long as it has enough primary extraction to get the brass out of the chamber enough to get it unstuck and allow easy withdrawal.

OP,
Remove your firing pin assy from bolt body.
Insert bolt into cleared receiver & cam bolt into battery.
With slight rearward pressure on bolt handle rotate bolt counter clock wise & notice when bolt lugs are coming off the intergral lugs in front receiver ring how much clearance that you have between the bolt handles extraction cam surface & the rear receiver ring primary extraction cam surface.

Depending on vintage of rifle-
The only variation is the bolt handle on any Remington 600,660,673,XP-100,XP-100R,Seven,722,721,700,40X,40XR.

Dan, should it hit the receiver cam or not during that process? Should I have a dummy round in the chamber during this process?

Remove the fire array and the ejector plunger and spring and close it on a fired case. Then slowly open the bolt while putting forward pressure on the bolt. That will tell you exactly how much of the extraction cam is actually being used. If it's perfect the bolt handle will clear the rear bridge by about .003 inch until the cam engages. The cam will then push everything back approximately .100 inch if it is timed perfectly.

If you want, you can black the extraction cam with a felt pen and open the bolt with forward pressure in this manor. The amount of engagement will be evident by the rubbed off area.

But as I indicated. Who cares as long as it works the way it is.

OP,
As described in my above post-
Depending on rifle vintage you will have .010" to .050" clearance between the fwd surface of the bolt handle & rear receiver ring on an OEM receiver/bolt that I have coined as LOCATION.

Upon rotating the bolt you will have .060" to .090" clearance between the handle's cam surface & receiver cam surface once the bolt lugs start coming off the integral lugs in the front receiver ring.

Only You Tube Video producers are successful at TIMING a bolt handle by changing the LOCATION
fwd & aft of which is only 1 part of the TIMING equation!

Is there a direct replacement handle to replace an OEM Remington-not by my standards.

About two weeks ago, much of this was covered under heading "700 Cocking (7-30-17 Might be a good idea you see Stuart Satterlees pretty in depth analysis

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
About two weeks ago, much of this was covered under heading "700 Cocking (7-30-17 Might be a good idea you see Stuart Satterlees pretty in depth analysis

Right Duane. But your Pappy never egg-schplained to you:

"You can whip a dead horse. But you can't whip a dead horse to death!"

I am the one who must be stupid; here; what does it matter if you have 100 percent camming or ten percent camming as long as it does the job of removing the brass enough to pull out easily.
I could be missing something here.
But a few decades of messing with bolt actions of all ilks tells me I'm not.

Speerchucker: I disagree. All you need is a bigger whip

Well, in my opinion the extraction cam should also work well enough to reset the trigger. We were talking about this here too:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...9411043/m/4691070432

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
Remove the fire array and the ejector plunger and spring and close it on a fired case. Then slowly open the bolt while putting forward pressure on the bolt....

Seems to me you'd want to put some rear pressure on the bolt, or leave the ejector plunger in. Otherwise you're not accounting for the slop between the extractor and the case rim. This gap counts against your extraction cam "budget" because the bolt can move backwards by this amount before the case starts to move out of the chamber.


In that other thread I think I mentioned that an easy solution is to put a blob of tig weld on that ramp part of the bolt handle, then grind it down to the right shape.

If you're worried about correct camming get a Mauser98!

If it works then it ain't broke so why would you want to try to "fix" it.

Jerry Liles

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Speerchucker: I disagree. All you need is a bigger whip

I suppose, being a charter member of the bigger hammer, stiffer drink club, I really should have known that!

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:
Remove the fire array and the ejector plunger and spring and close it on a fired case. Then slowly open the bolt while putting forward pressure on the bolt....

Seems to me you'd want to put some rear pressure on the bolt, or leave the ejector plunger in. Otherwise you're not accounting for the slop between the extractor and the case rim. This gap counts against your extraction cam "budget" because the bolt can move backwards by this amount before the case starts to move out of the chamber.


In that other thread I think I mentioned that an easy solution is to put a blob of tig weld on that ramp part of the bolt handle, then grind it down to the right shape.

Without putting a case in, you can actually push the bolt in a bit farther than normal. There should be .010 inch of clearance in a hunting rifle. So you want to use a case for an accurate assessment.

If you leave the ejector in, it will push the bolt back about .010 to .020 inch until the extractor engages the rim of the case as the bolt lugs fall off the closing cams.

If you pull back on the bolt, the bolt never will engage the extracting cam because the bolt will begin to move rearward as the lugs roll off the closing cams.

The closing cams and the extraction cam will work in unison if properly timed. Pushing the bolt forward emulates having an extractor with no lineal play between the extractor and case rim with a stuck case. It will show you how much rearward bolt travel you actually get as the bolt handle rides up the extraction cam.

As far as welding up the cam on the bolt handle, all that will accomplish would be to make the cam engage sooner. You could easily create a situation where the extraction cam begins trying to pull the bolt back before the lugs have disengaged and you wouldn't be able to lift the bolt handle high enough to allow the bolt to come back. What you want to do when trying to make the cam work better is to move the entire cam forward while keeping the location of the angle in the same place.

I am finally glad to see that we are completely out of real gun problems to discuss and are now talking about fluff.
You all know what fluff is.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I am finally glad to see that we are completely out of real gun problems to discuss and are now talking about fluff.
You all know what fluff is.

Fluff is that fuzzy stuff that gathers in your navel, that you contemplate when there is nothing to do, nothing to hunt and you're out of whiskey and ammunition!

See, they even have it up in Canuck land.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
See, they even have it up in Canuck land.

Are you saying that you have NEVER contemplate the fuzzy stuff that gathers in your navel? That's just not normal! That stuff is like human manufactured, dryer lint. One day I'll discover a practical purpose for it and I'll be richer than Trump !

Not at all; I am saying that I didn't know they had it up there. I just thought they used alcohol to gain total clarity and become one with the universe.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Not at all; I am saying that I didn't know they had it up there. I just thought they used alcohol to gain total clarity and become one with the universe.

Well, we do and we do! But I can tell you for a fact that after living in the USA for a couple of three years you will never be able to connect with the Great Spirit and be one with the universe drinking that Koolaid that you guys call beer! We drink our beer for the alcohol, not the taste. Plus it keeps us from freezing to death.

When my 700 was built, the smith removed the bolt handle and adjusted/reinstalled it based on the new timing of the trued surfaces.

Failure to do this will result in weak primary extraction.

quote:

Originally posted by lockingblock:
When my 700 was built, the smith removed the bolt handle and adjusted/reinstalled it based on the new timing of the trued surfaces.

Failure to do this will result in weak primary extraction.

Yes it will!

.