I bought the classic ss model 70 in 270 wsm. I am experiences feeding problems. The last round in the magazine won't chamber properly, it gets caught up on the shoulder of the case in the chamber, anles I cycle it like a mad man (very fast). It otherwise functions fine. Do others have this same problem? Winchester said I should send it back but I don't want to give up the rifle for three months. I not convinced that they can even fix the problem. What should I do?

MOA, return it to the factory. I have always adhered to the practice no matter how painful & it has always been beneficial in the long run.

I've had work done by Winchester, Ruger and Thompson Contender. They all seem to go out of their way to get it corrected & back to you promptly.

Jeff

by the way .. I also bought the 300 wsm in the SS synthetic model. I changed the stock to a H-S Precision and sent the rifle to Hill Country for their accurizing special. This rifle is going to be my primary arm in Africa this September !!!!!

MOA, I've posted extensively about this... I have a M70 stainless in 300 WSM that does
(essentially) the same thing.

If you look VERY carefully, you'll see that the juncture of the shoulder and body of the case is hanging-up on the extractor cutout. The reason the other two rounds don't do this is because the follower spring is under significant pressure, thereby pushing (snapping) the cartridges up and allowing them to feed straight into the chamber. The last round (#3) doesn't seem to be getting enough force from the spring to get it straght for the ride into the chamber. This last round tends to "hang" on the extractor cutout.

Other than a substantially larger follower spring, I don't know if there's any way to fix it other than having a smith grind on the cutout to somehow lessen this tendancy to "hang'. USRAC may do that, then again they might not.

My #3 round only "hangs-up" when the bolt is cycled slowly. Then, it's still possible to make it chamber. When the #3 round is cycled "normally" (like you would while rapidly working the bolt in the field) mine doesn't hang-up.

I have a friend at USRAC who's in charge of such things... if you'd like I can contact him for some ideas.

There's a reason the battle weapons of yester-year were chambered for slope-shouldered, tapered cartridges... the WSM's ain't that, though I still like them. Still, they may be more ideally suited to push-feeds rather than CRF's.

BA

Thanks Brad, you described exactly my problem. I think I'll have to live with it. If you would I'd appreciated some advice from your buddy at USRAC. I may send it back AFTER hunting season but I would be suprised if they could fix it. Like you said it's more the case anatomy than the rifle itself. Others I have recently spoke with have the same problem. I'll look up your posts to check them out. Thanks a lot.--MOA

You don't really have to live with the problem you just have to alter the action a little. I have a Rem 700 which I made into a 6.5-06 imp. What part of the problem was is the magazine fit into the action and caused a little catch or lip, so what I did was I took a dremal tool and polished up the ramp and matched the magazine to the ramp so there were no lips or places where the shoulder of the case would not catch when chambering even the last round. Win short mag cases have a sharp 35 degree shoulder which is harder to chamber than a regular 30-06 case or similar factory round. Where the cases feed into the chamber is shaped like a U. On my rifles the magazine U sat hire than the U in the action.. Match your magazine to the action and it should elimiate your problem.

DD... MOA has an M70, not a M700... as you know the M700 doesn't have an extractor cut-out. That's where the problem is. The round is hanging-up on the extractor cutout. I sure as heck wouldn't start "hacking away" with a dremel on a brand-new rifle especially without the barrel taken off. No, I think this is something better left to the factory or a warranty station (most of which I have little confidence in).

BA

I agree with Deaddog. It's no superhuman feat to clean up the feeding ramp, something which Winchester (or whoever they are these days) should have done before the rifle left the factory.

If you trust the people who didn't do it right in the first place to get it right on the second go-around, and have a few months you're willing to wait to see if that happens (and don't mind paying the shipping and insurance charges), then go ahead and send them your rifle. I would prefer to use someone I trust (me) to fix it to my own satisfaction.

The problem you're having is one that is endimic to the "shortfat" cartridges. Remington prototypes for the RUM series (I realize yours is a Winchester, but its the same issue) only put two cartridges in the magazine, in part because of the problem you're experiencing. It's tough to get three of the large diameter WSM's (or SUM's) into a magazine box without giving the gun a "drop" magazine. They didn't want to do that (for reasons of economics as well as asthetics), so have done their best to squeeze that third round in and make it work, which, as you note, it does sometimes.

I don't mean to "dis" the short magnums, because they do in a short action what no previous round can do, but many people overlook the compromise that you loose one or two rounds of magazine capacity with them compared to long-action rounds of similar ballistic performance. This magazine capacity may be very important to some shooters in some situations.

Brad, I realize your having problems with the extractor cutout. I was giving a example of how you can slick up a ramp on a brand new rifle action. This is some of the things you can do to help brand new actions perform better. If you don't feel comfortable doing stuff like that then take it to a respected gunsmith and tell him about your problem. I have worked on many rifles and pistols. In fact I worked for a respected pistol smith for 8 years. You will not get what you are looking for with sending it back to the factory. My brother sent a P94 ruger back to the factory and they did a hack job on it when he got it back. Not too impressed. But if you want to wait for several months before you get it back and the gun may or may not have the same problem when you get it back. Then you still have to take care of it yourself or take it to a gunsmith.

I agree with Stonecreek. Short fat cases have a problem feeding threw the action. It is part of it. I have a Remington 700 in 6.5-06 Imp which I chambered for hunting white tail deer in missouri. When extracting the cases slowly they become caught in the race way once the case exits the chamber. Didn't realize that would be a problem before I cut the chambered. But what I did do was to take the action apart from the barrel and polished the raceway and where the case was sticking. No more problem. It is the little things you can do help your action feed better. You just need to understand what your doing. There is not much difference between a Rem 700 and Win 70. They both function the same. Both feed the same and both extract the same (so to speak). Same principle. The worst problem your going to have is the sharp shoulder. That is what causes most feeding problems.

Stonecreek and DD, I mentioned the problem of "short and fat" in my first post... I'm accutely aware of it. Like I originally said, it's why various governments of yester-year insisted on slope-shouldered, tapered rounds in their military rifles. They feed!

SC, two rounds in the magazine rather than three has nothing to do with this problem and will not rectify the problem as the last round has the same pressure on it whether it had two cartridges before it or one. The follower spring needs to have substantially more tension than what is provided by the current factory spring in order to "snap" the last cartridge up into the chamber to allow for "straight" feeding. My guess is getting these short-fat-straight-sharp-shouldered rounds to feed properly is easier don in a PF (M700) than a CRF (M70).

DD, I do understand what you're saying... there are things that can be done to make the WSM's feed flawlessly. My smith (Dave Gentry) developed a short-fat line very similar to the WSM's in the 1980's... he got his to feed fine. As he builds his own Mauser actions (with extractor cut-outs on the barrel!) and chambered them in his M98 action-clones, my bet is he's the man to make any of these feed like slippery sausages.

BA

Whatever is done it may work out. Today we are used to sending stuff back. We are a disposable society. Long ago someone would "slick" the action themselves. If you have the skill to do this with a gentle start the rifle will be smoother anyway.

Get a book on gunsmithing and follow the directions.

If that were my rifle I would ignore the extra round in the chamber. It's not a DGR and I hunt with single shot rifles anyway out of choice.

Someone here sent a .375 H&H back to USARC more than once and it was never fixed!

Have somone else watch while you cycle the action. Another set of eyes may pick up the exact problem. A little bit of 600 paper may cure the problem. So may stretching the spring!

If it groups well I would not let the rifle out of my possesion.