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The reciever ring is thinner than '98 or equivalent by design. It has no load-bearing purpose. Jorgen posted thru Dave above that the proof house was requested to engrave the action, not punch it. What's not to understand? "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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Hey jørgen, Is there a particular reason you all want the Hardness 0.3mm deep and 55Hrc? Is it to deter and/or reduce errant scratches? I think about some of the scratches and dings my rifles have had to endure over the years and I feel sure some of them would not have been visible if the surface Hardness had been that high. On the other hand, I can think of some unintentional high impact hits on my rifles as well as those owned by guests. Generally created by a rifle falling 16'-24' down a metal Ladder, but also for reasons varying from a poor grip, breaking rope, climbing stand getting onto the rifle, set down wrong in the Stand, sling swivels letting go, dropped at the skinning shed, etc. The Receivers subjected to sharp impacts were on Mousers, Winchesters, Marlins, Remingtons, Savages and Weatherbys where the result was simply a dent or scratch in the finish. Some scopes were ready for the scrap heap, some scope rings re-aligned, a cracked piece of Termite Food or so, but no cracked receivers that I can remember. Both Blue and Stainless. ----- Hey Dave67, That sure was a quick turn around. Speaks well for your dealer as well as jørgen. Best of luck with the new one. | |||
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Doc I can not answer that question the damaged part of the action as far as I am aware is still with the UK proof house. I have a new action and assume the uk importer is sorting it out on be half of Jørgen,which means they have sorted my problem out before the conclusion of why it has happened. Guess dealing with a more customer orientated not big faceless company has its benefits when you need it most. | |||
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Thank You Dave ; All I was after was if they gave Dave any explanation as too the crack and how it was done at this point , it is of no concern of Dave's as they replaced his action I understand that . I was simply curious as to how hard it must have been hit to impart a crack in that steel . It's my nature to be curious as I have a Masters degree in Structural Engineering , so nothing is ever taken for granted . It's why I asked . Thanks again Everybody as Firearms are not my realm of expertise . Other than shooting them and Reloading for them .  | |||
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To Hot Core The reason for the hard surface, is to acheve a decent bolttravel, and also to make the action posible to polish to a decent degre by vibrationpolishing. Also to add wearresistence, and prevent the bolt from binding if the action is exposed to dirt. The idea is to make it so hard and tight that it would function selfcleaning, as an hydraulic piston. To doc It requires a distinkt blow from a hammer to stamp the reciever with the proofmark. This unintended blow by a rather dull stamp, greate a big surface tention, as the surface is not deformable because of the surface treatment. We haven't got the cracked reciever back yet, but we performed a similar stamping on another reciever, then we cross sectioned it to se the nature of the crack. This crack was only visible on the surface, and the core was still intact, as the core is deformable. By the way, we actualy damaged the stamp during the test, as it became equaly deformed  | |||
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Forgive my ignorance but it's not at all obvious, to me, why a steel cylinder cracked because it was struck with a small stamp. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Howard, what is not to understand is that Tiggertate did not understand it either. Being thinner by design and not being load bearing had nothing to do with it. It was hardened on on the outside but it had a soft inner core. Remember Mark Stratton's explanation of what you had with a carburized 09 Argentine? You had a surface that was very hard and in fact brittle. A sharp pointed object like a punch can and in this case did create a high stress point where it hits the surface and that surface cracked, but as Jorgen said, ONLY the surface cracked. The essentially soft inner core was still intact. | |||
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Ok so then the question is, why harden the outside? Why not just the inside? Isn't it over hardened to crack so easily? Is cracking so easy a mfg flaw? Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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The inner surface was hardened but not the core. You are not going to be able to surface harden and add enough carbon to go all the way in and it was not needed. | |||
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Call me, I am watching Appoloosa on my BLUE RAY | |||
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 -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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That is what I should have said. Why not harden just the inner surface, the bolt raceways etc and leave the outer surface "not so hard"? Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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 Hey jørgen, Thanks for the explaination. I understand. | |||
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Theoreticaly it would be posible to partialy gasnitrade the surface. This could be done by painting on a surfaceblocker,on the areas you want to leave soft, before gasnitration. This is not a good idea on sutch an action, because we want a highly polishable surface. There is also integrated mountbases milled into the reciever, they would be not so wear resistent if left soft. If someone smacks a hammer tru your windshield, and the windshield cracks. Is the windshield then a lousy windshiled. or is the windshield just not designed as a bulletproof pice of glass. Or is it a poor car if it is dented from bumping into a rock | |||
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My question is why not move the proofmark over to the top of the serial number? Is it just as thin there and would cause a longer crack, or would you be getting away from the corner where the hardness I'm thinking might be more so with the outside/inside and flat surface of the end of reciever. (3 surfaces coming together there) Question: When hardening an action you have no control over what area gets hardened, doesnt this harden the whole part as a whole, inside and out? I was under the impression the inside and outside is a hard shell over the entire part and softer in the middle if done right. If not would you not have hard and soft areas throughout the reciever? Run a carbide endmill hard into your vise jaws and see what happens to the endmill, I suspect it maybe along the same line as the crack in the picture. Where might I find Mark Strattons artical on the Arg. 09, would like to read it! _____________________ Steve Traxson | |||
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That was one tough stamp! God Bless, Louis | |||
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It's like hitting a chocolate dipped ice cream cone with your teeth! _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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All you big strong men excite me...talking about your hardend actions and your sliding bolts... Can you spank me instead of hitting me with a punch and a hammer...  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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TMI (Too Much Information)! | |||
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Makes sense, thank you. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Fracture mechanics is an entirely different science than "regular" mechanics. I would bet money the stamping itself did not immediately cause a crack to form. There is almost no way a hand-held metal stamp and hammer could generate sufficient stresses to have that result on the steel of the receiver. However, a metal stamp obviously changes the local geometry of the part, likely leading to stress concentration points. It is here that a crack can begin to propagate with what would be considered acceptable stress levels for a given material... In other words, irregularities in shape can allow cracks to form from forces that should be well within the service limits of a material. Fracture mechanics is a well studied, but poorly understood science. At least for me when I got my Masters degree in it several years ago. | |||
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Just as an aside on the proof issue in UK, they are a bit anal about these things, If I have a barrel screw cut for a moderator, I can use it without a further proof mark, but if I wish to sell it, I legally have to have the work proofed. Some moderators also carry proof marks too, c'ant understand why though. | |||
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