Can anyone share some details of these two great calibres? Which one should i get more performance from on BG.? I have toyed with the idea for years now if i should convert my mod 98 (308 NM) to one or the other.

if your 98 is currently a 308 NM, the bolt will not work with a 9.3x62

Ah ha thats a starter..thanks

gryphon,
The 358Norma would get you more "energy" on target than the 9.3x62. With the Norma think 338WM necked to .35caliber. Alan Swann in Qld I think has a reamer, but finding a barrel with suitable twist in Oz is harder (I want 1:14" or better yet 1:12"). Lothar is your best bet for a barrel. Your 308Norma will best be rechambered/barreled to 358Norma because the bolt face is already "magnum" size. If you get serious about building one, let me know as its a cartridge I've wanted to try for quite awhile.
Cheers...
Con

I have a little 358 Norma. 19" Mannlicher. Norma factory ammo 250 gr @ 2700FPS.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
I have a little 358 Norma. 19" Mannlicher. Norma factory ammo 250 gr @ 2700FPS.

Are you losing speed and energy with such a short barrel?

quote:

If you get serious about building one, let me know as its a cartridge I've wanted to try for quite awhile.

So Con you want to shoot off my ammo hahaa

I'm sure I'm losing some velocity compared to a 24". Loadtech calls it 85fps coming down to the 19. This is factory Nosler ammo with the 250 Woodleigh and two Chronographs give me 2700 from one and 2715 from the second for 3 shot averages.

Sure gryphon, I'll be your crash test dummy and sight her in for you! Free of charge and all, you supply the ammo ! Lothar should have a pre-chambered/threaded barrel in 358Norma to fit M98 actions for just under $500, plus another $250ish to fit.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
Sure gryphon, I'll be your crash test dummy and sight her in for you! Free of charge and all, you supply the ammo ! Lothar should have a pre-chambered/threaded barrel in 358Norma to fit M98 actions for just under $500, plus another $250ish to fit.
Cheers...
Con

No thanks Con, i`m a self crash tester mate,but bring your own ammo is ok

gryphon I put a 358 Norma together about 30 years ago. A p-14 action with a 24 in barrel with a 1-14 in twist. If you want to shoot heavier bullets a 1-14 or 1-12 is likely the best way to go. I've always used 250 gr bullets pushed by a max charge of IMR 4350. This combination has no trouble reaching 2800 fps with the 250's and performance is very similar to the 375 H&H with 270 gr bullets. Even before Nosler made partitions in 358 cal the old 250 Speer's and Hornady's worked pretty well on quite a few moose. Norma brass is getting harder to find and pretty expensive but 338 Win brass works just fine. With 225 gr or 250 gr spitzers the 358 will be effective at ranges the 9.3x62 cannot match. The 358 Norma and the 9.3x64 are very close ballistically. Any difference between the 358 Norma,the 9.3x64 and the 375 H&H is mostly in someones imagination. That isn't bad company to be included in.

A 24" 358 Norma with a good 250 gr will match velocities with a 24" 375 H&H with a 260-270 with egual or higher SD. However if you need something heavier then a 250 you are very limited in a 358.

I love my 358. Only reason I bought a 375 was because I've always wanted a "375 H&H" and if I take it to Africa next year I could fine factory ammo.

quote:

A 24" 358 Norma with a good 250 gr will match velocities with a 24" 375 H&H with a 260-270 with egual or higher SD. However if you need something heavier then a 250 you are very limited in a 358.

I love my 358. Only reason I bought a 375 was because I've alwyas wanted a "375 H&H" and if I take it to Africa next year I could fine factory ammo.

You have North Fork, Swift, and Woodleigh which has heavier bullets.
Woodleigh have 310 grain soft and solid.

Out to 150yds or so I don't think it matters.At very close range the 9.3 286gr is better for the big stuff. Beyond 150yds is where the 358 NM will begin to shine. The equal of the 375 H&H with 260/270 gr bullets.

Pathfinder,

How do you figure that a 286gn9.3x62@2400fps is better for big stuff at very close range,than a 270gnNF or 310gnWL.358Nm bullet? I see those NFs' holding up very well at close range even at 358Nm velocities...270gnNF 97.3% retention@2600impact velocity.
http://www.northforkbullets.com/358-270.htm
dont get me wrong, I am a fan of the 9.3x62.....,but please show me where the disadvantage is with the 358Nm against the 9.3x62 at very close range,(if you dont mind), cause i seem to me missing something!

If most of my shots were to fall within 200 m, I'd take the 9.3x62, probably even over the 375. If I need "more gun" than a 9.3x62, I'll grab a 416, not a 375...

If mosts shot were to be 200+m, I'd take a 338WM or 358 NM.

quote:

Pathfinder,

How do you figure that a 286gn9.3x62@2400fps is better for big stuff at very close range,than a 270gnNF or 310gnWL.358Nm bullet? I see those NFs' holding up very well at close range even at 358Nm velocities...270gnNF 97.3% retention@2600impact velocity.

Woodjack,
I have to admit that I've never killed an animal with 358 270 or 310 gr bullets and when I made the statement I was thinking in terms of the 250gr bullets. I have taken at least 12 heads of game with the 9.3X62 up to Zebra, waterbuck, kudu, red hartebeest and wildebeest, tough animals all and the 9.3 results were impressive.I can also get 6rounds of 9.3 in my rifle and can react faster with the lower recoil in the event a second shot is needed(it usually is) and that's important in the high grass or thick mopane.I'm a big fan of the 358 NM and Northfork bullets but not a fan of woodleighs.I sure didn't mean to imply that the 358 wouldn't work just fine I do believe though that it's tough to beat the 9.3X62 for non dangerous game at < 200yds. I also agree with the satement that "9.3X62" made that if the 9.3X62 isn't big enough I too would prefer my 416 rem mag.

Pathfinder,

I read you.
And yes, 416 seems the next best step from the 9.3 or 358Nm.

I think that the answer to this one was best summed up by 9.3X62: if your shots are less than 200 meters (or if hunting conditions limit you to shots under 200 meters), then go with the 9,3X62.

It is arguable that there is no round more effective or efficient for non dangerous game than the 9,3X62 at distances under 200 meters.

But in the end, go with what you like. They're both very good.

quote:

I can also get 6rounds of 9.3 in my rifle and can react faster with the lower recoil in the event a second shot is needed

The calculated recoil between the two is only 2#. In the one 9.3 I've shot I couldn't really feel the difference between it and my 358. I've also never been in a hunting situation where having 6 down for a total of 7 rounds was an issue. I have never used anything but factory 358. Mostly on hogs and one elk. Several of the hogs were 300+ and less than 50 yds. I don't remember ever recovering a bullet from a hog I've shot with my 358.

In my opinion it would be real difficult to pick one over the other for short ranges. On longer shots I would give the 358 a slight advantage. I'm sure there are some areas where it is easy to find 9.3 ammo. Around here they are both real hard to find.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Can anyone share some details of these two great calibres? Which one should i get more performance from on BG.? I have toyed with the idea for years now if i should convert my mod 98 (308 NM) to one or the other.

I believe you'd get more performance out of the .358 Norma, but the .358 STA would be even better, IF it would work through your magazine!

I figured it would just be a question of time before the 9.3x62 mafia made an assertion about the superiority of the 9.3 over the 358 Norma.

Then use arguements about a few grains in bullet weight and a few fps advantages of the 358 Norma as being essentially irrellevent to the arguement. The same few grains of bullet weitht and fps "differences" between the 35 whelen and the 9.3x62 that become the be-all and end-all of 9.3x62 superiority over the Whelen.

You can't have your cake and eat it too!

Barstooler

quote:

The calculated recoil between the two is only 2#.

Not sure where you are getting this figure, the recoil calculators suggest that there is roughly an 8# difference, or a 25%ish increase in recoil. Here are the figures (both assume a 9lb rifle):

9.3x62:
250 gr XB
2644 fps
60 gr H414
recoil = 31.31 ft/lbs

358 NM:
250 gr XB
2818 fps
75 gr. H4350
recoil = 39.34 ft/lbs

quote:

In the one 9.3 I've shot I couldn't really feel the difference between it and my 358.

Same weight and stock design?

quote:

In my opinion it would be real difficult to pick one over the other for short ranges.

Agreed. I'd feel equally well armed with either, but I would choose the 9.3x62 because it is my personal preference.

quote:

Not sure where you are getting this figure, the recoil calculators suggest that there is roughly an 8# difference, or a 25%ish increase in recoil. Here are the figures (both assume a 9lb rifle):

Just a matter of assumptions.

The rifle I shot was right at 9# just like my 358. My 358 might have been an oz or two lighter. His load (per his comment and my memory) was a 286 (heavier than your 250) and 60 grs of RL15. He was getting 2500. With a 9# SSTs recoil calculator calls that 33#.

For my 358 I shoot Factory Norma. In my short barrel I measured 2700fps. I just used Loadtech to pull a powder that gave me 2700 in my length barrel. Loads were from 70-74grs. With 70 it calculates 35 and 36# with 75 grs.

Dropping the bullet weight would reduce the recoil. I just had always thought of the 9.3 in 286. Didn't check but I was trying to compare bullets with closer SDs.

With the loads I shot hard to tell the difference. In your case I agree 8# is a much bigger difference.

Hmmm with a handle of 9.3X62 I would have never guessed your preference would be the 9.3X62.

quote:

Just a matter of assumptions.

The rifle I shot was right at 9# just like my 358. My 358 might have been an oz or two lighter. His load (per his comment and my memory) was a 286 (heavier than your 250) and 60 grs of RL15. He was getting 2500. With a 9# SSTs recoil calculator calls that 33#.

For my 358 I shoot Factory Norma. In my short barrel I measured 2700fps. I just used Loadtech to pull a powder that gave me 2700 in my length barrel. Loads were from 70-74grs. With 70 it calculates 35 and 36# with 75 grs.

With the loads I shot hard to tell the difference. In your case I agree 8# is a much bigger difference.

Fair enough. I was trying to compare max load to max load (both in 24" barrels)...

quote:

I just had always thought of the 9.3 in 286.

I often have as well, but with the advent of the modern premium 250 gr. 9.3mm bullets, I think they may be a better fit for 200m hunting...

quote:

Hmmm with a handle of 9.3X62 I would have never guessed your preference would be the 9.3X62.

Well, don't let it fool you, I am a huge Whelen and 338-06 fan as well. So many people have to argue one at the expense of the other it seems - I like them all.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Can anyone share some details of these two great calibres? Which one should i get more performance from on BG.? I have toyed with the idea for years now if i should convert my mod 98 (308 NM) to one or the other.

358 Norma mag. Why? Beacause it's Swedish Brass can easily be formed from 300 win or 338win..

Cheers
/JOHAN

gryphon,
MAB can supply, fit and chamber to 358Norma for $475 (24" C/M, 1:12") or $508 for a 26" barrel.
Cheers...
Con

Ok whats the diff (besides the friggin obvious) `tween the two lengths re energy and speed....26" is too long for me anyway..though not for my last missus.And all that works out with a PHale 98 ?

I'd take the 24" as I reckon there would be sweet FA in the extra 2". The quote I got off them was to "supply/fit/chamber" which I assume would include blueing the barrel. Any extra work would be charged accordingly ... they said they'd call to verify if anything else required work like feeding etc... which really shouldn't be required but you never know! I didn't mention anything about actions as when you call you get a receptionist and she quotes the work out of a book I think. You need to give them your prefered barrel dimensions though, as they dont seem to have standard profiles like a "#3 or #4".
Cheers...
Con

If you are really looking for a performing 35 Caliber. Get on your scearch engine and look up 358 STA (Shooting Times Alaskan). Truely a awsome caliber. Shooting Times September 1992 has a very good article on it.

Why not combine the two. A 358 Norma necked up to 9.3. I have been thinking of this for some time now. I have a 9.3x62 and it is a good shooter. I have been thinking that if you could add another 200 or 300 fps or so, you would indeed have a 9.3 that would be the equal of 375 H&H. Have any of you done this wildcat? I would be interested in the results. Thanks,, HOOT

but then one might as well have the H+H

Hoot Murray,

I really like the idea of the 9.3/338win and just about every other round based on the 458case. the .375Taylor is one that deserves ago aswell. If Winchester would take that onboard as one of their factory Win rounds(.375WinMag) they might be surprised at the interest they would get. Thats where I would have put my effort rather than the 325WSM.
But yes the 9.3/338 sounds very nice!