The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing Winchester 70 FeedingGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Well, I have read all I can find on correcting feeding malfunctions with the Winchester Classic action, .308 Win. The problem I have encountered is the left side cartridges (#2 and #4) fail to release or pop up to the extractor, so the bullet nose jams into the extractor cut out on the right. If it does pop up, the extractor often fails to engage the rim, and it acts like a push feed. I am using a Williams extractor. I don't believe the extractor is the problem, as I removed it and used it on another Classic .308, and it worked all right in that rifle. I am thinking the mag spring is too weak. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you. | ||
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What? A CRF rifle that won't feed? Aren't they supposed to be 100% reliable, even upside down, in the rain, with any ammo, being operated by a one armed midget? Say it ain't so!  Sorry, I couldn't resist. Too many years of following the push feed vs CRF debate/argument/nonsense. I hope that somebody familiar with troubleshooting them can help you out. | |||
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Yep! It does happen sometimes. It used to be all right, so that is another reason why I am somewhat puzzled. I have others with Williams extractors that work quite well.  | |||
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| One of Us |
Have you checked for burs or nicks on the bottom of the feed lip on that side? | |||
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Well, I tried a magazine spring from another rifle to no avail. I tried the original MIM extractor with no improvement. I haven't noticed any burrs or nicks. Everything feels smooth. There's copper wash on the feed ramp from the bullet tips. I may just have to contact Mark Penrod and let him work his magic. Thanks for the suggestions. | |||
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I'm no smith, but it sounds like you have two so... swich the parts from the one that feeds with the one that doesn't until you find out what is wrong that check it carfully. First the spring, than the follower, than the box etc. Than you arn't guessing which part you need. Good Luck. | |||
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Diagnosing feeding problems is sometimes allot easier if you have some dummy rounds that you can slowly cycle through the action while looking straight down into the receiver to see what each individual round is doing, or not doing...and possibly see what is causing it to not center up where it can be grabbed by the extractor as it goes forward into the chamber. This is also a very instructive exercise to show exactly when the CRF extractor actually snaps over the case rim to hold the cartridge...which is much later than allot of proponents of CRF think it is. The tip of the bullet has already started to enter the chamber before the extractor snaps over the case rim. Doesn’t mean its a bad system...but it ain’t quite as “controlled†as allot of people would have you believe it is. You might also check to see if your mag box is cocked to one side or the other or in a bind. The feed ramp is what helps center the round just before the extractor snaps over the case rim so I wouldn’t be surprised that there was some copper marking on it. | |||
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That's how my 6.5X55 CZ 550 works. The rim doesn't snap into the extractor until the bullet is entering the bore and forces the head up. I suspect that's due to using a 30-06-length magazine for such a short round. In my Model 70 (260 Rem), however, the extraction groove snaps into the extractor immediately as soon as the case clears the rails. Now this is a pre-64 action that has been worked over by some of the best in the HP rifle business (Jack Davis and Alex Sitman). Something tells me my CZ needs professional attention. | |||
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HP Shooter, Indulge my ignorance for a moment because the only CRF weapons I own are Springfields and Enfields. Are model 70’s and CZ’s the same, in that the tip of the bullet contacting the cone shaped feed ramp on its way forward is what moves the round to center and clears it from the rails? If this is the case, then how could you alter when and where the extractor snaps over the rim of the case? Just for the Hell of it I tried some 06’ and .308 dummy’s in one of my Springfields just now to see how far the rounds would go before they stopped being “pushed†and started being “controlled.†The tip of the bullet in the 06’ is just starting to enter the chamber...and the shorter .308 has its bullet tip right at the top of the feed ramp when the extractor snaps onto the case rim. I believe that .308’s are real close to the same overall length as your .260 Remington round. A PF Remington‘s feed lips “control†the round until the tip of the bullet is entering the chamber also...so what’s the real difference? In both systems the round is “pushed†by the bolt until the round literally has nowhere else to go except into the chamber. Sure, you can partially chamber a round and then pull it back out with a CRF...but in 45 years or so of shooting bolt action rifles I can’t recall a single instance where I needed to do that, can you? | |||
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I have a Classic Featherweight in 7-08 that did what yours does. One of the problems was that the sides of the magazine box were squeezed in. In order to get it to feed neck sized brass for rifle silhouette I relieved the sides of the box where in enters the receiver to widen the box even more. Beyond that I also bent the feed lips various ways until I got it to work. The rifle may well have fed factory ammo fine but I have never fired a round of factory in it so I don't know. I was using reformed previously fired LC 308 brass so it was larger than new brass. | |||
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I tried Fed Match, and Winchester factory white box, in addition to handloads, (with muzzle pointed in a safe direction). The left side rounds aren't being released soon enough, I think, and continued pushing with the bolt sends the cartridge bullet tip slightly to the right, bumping into the extractor slot of the barrel. Thanks everybody for the help. | |||
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It's extremely difficult for me to answer your questions unless you are standing next to me and watching while I can slowly work the action of my Model 70 and that of my CZ with dummy rounds. Then, what I am talking about would become impossible to misunderstand. There is a significant difference between the two rifles in how they feed and that's a fact. I suspect it's because my M70 has had professional attention. I need someone in the western Ohio/NW Kentucky area who is a CRF expert to look at both and tell me if the CZ can be improved or if that is just the nature of the beast. I am not going to send the rifle across the country if I can help it. Thanks. | |||
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