guys I'm wondering, the cutout on the rear of the ring, at 12 o'clock, of Harry selby's 416 Rigby (which I think looks super cool):

1. was the purpose for loading, as I suspect?
2. how much does this weaken the action?

haven't I seen actions opened up at 3 o'clock, if lookng at the ring from behind, for loading? is that the preference because of strength?

anyways, it looks tits delicious

I had to edit this, sorry I said bridge. I meant the front ring. the one picture of his rifle looking at it from behind and to the right shows this cutout.

Often they are opened at 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock. 12 for loading and three for ejecting live rounds.

I believe I have seen one Duane did where he milled it from 12 o'clock all the way to 3 o'clock.

Does it weaken it? Sure, but I guess the question is does it make it unsafe. I'm sure the ballerinas around here will start talking about "margin of safety", etc.

The proof is in the pudding. Selby's rifle was still going strong after nearly 5 decades of continuous use. What more could you ask out of a rifle?

I love the way it looks. the next question becomes, do I need to "justify" it by picking a cartridge too big for the action as is, or can I have it done just because it looks cool?

Red

Looking at how Jeffrey relieved the rear bridge on their 404 and 500 rifles built on standard 98's, we see that the rear of the extractor is fully exposed (Champlin's currently has an original 404 for sale on their website that demonstrates this.) I believe that Rigby made the cutout in order to have enough room in the aft section for loading and ejecting while keeping the rear of the extractor enclosed in the action, as opposed to the jeffrey method. To my eye, this looks better, but I don't know if it lends significantly more rigidity to the action. I told my action man that I don't care how he opens up my action, just that it works. He has opened up a std 98 for the 416 Rigby before, and I believe that he opens up more in the rear and less up front than Rigby did with Selby's Rifle. My action may look more like a Jeffrey in the end, (I really don't know at this point), but if it shoots and is safe, I don't care. I can't hope to get an exact copy of Selby's rifle, but only a loose appoximation. I'm sure I'll be quite happy. I've retained some good craftsmen for this project.

www.champlinarms.com/Default.a...StyleID=2&GunID=1571

AHHHH, I screwed that up, guys I'm not feeling good, and you take norco + cold medicine, and add groggy from nap you get bad post. edited.

I meant the cutout on the back of the ring!

Red

You´ll find that cutout on most commercial Oberndorf rifles in Caliber 30-06 and on former 7x57 or 8x57 military rifles rebarrelled to 30-06(Coulumbian , Norwegian alterations).
In those standard length actions it was necessary to allow clip loading cartridges with long spitzer bullets.
Even some .416 Rifles with magnum length actions show that treatment.

I think it will not substantially weaken the action if not going to the extreme.

BTW if so treated on the continent the rifle
- by law - has to be reproofed.

So if you find it cool , you may have done it.

Although I have to be honest that I never saw Harry Selby's rifle, I have seen numerous actions opened up for longer cartridges that they were designed for.

Many people, and I am in that camp as well feel it is necessary to leave enough of the rear receiver bridge to channel the claw extractor. This is to keep the extractor aligned during opening the bolt to keep it from twisitng and binding. I don't care if the most famous gun builder in the world relieves the area surrounding the claw extractor, I will call it an unacceptable shortcut on any gun, not just a DG gun; I will call it a flaw! Winchester had a graceful curve on the pre 64 H&H's on the right side of the rear bridge increasing the ejection port opening while containing the end of the claw extractor. As an aside note they had a notch in the rear of the front receiver ring to increase the length of the loading port.

Way back when someone use to sell longer extractor for pre 64 Win 70's and M1917 Enfields that permitted this practice, but I haven't seen them available in about 15 years. The extracors were 1/4" - 3/8" longer which reached deeper into the relieved rear bridge.

Airgun: Well said and so true. Now about opening up the action (98) for 500 Jeff. Neither the ring or bridge HAS to have metal removed lengthwise.

There must be a champfer ground on the R. inside of the bridge to allow for ejection room.

Of course, lots of metal has to be taken out of the rails and the ramp altered

If you do want to have this done, use a larger mill (7/8"), keep it centered and only go about .060" deep. Not because of weaking the action but too much just looks kinda silly. Dont try to smooth over the edges, leave the cut distinct or else it will look sloppy.

I found the perfect picture referencing this but couldn't post last night, the forum was giving me trouble (that or DNS problem on my end??).

this is actually a magnum mauser, but see the little half moon? (for those that still weren't sure from my confused rambling what I was talking about)

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
I love the way it looks. the next question becomes, do I need to "justify" it by picking a cartridge too big for the action as is, or can I have it done just because it looks cool?

Red

Remember, form follows function.

I personally don't care for the look anyhow, but as a general rule I frown on things done purely for appearance. Purely stylistic touches excepted, such as schnabel or ebony tips, fancy checkering, etc.

Permanent alterations to the metal part of the receiver for no other reason than to "look cool" is a bad idea in my opinion. And my opinion is all that is...

IIRC FN factory Supreme actions had the same bullet-point relif groove in 375 H&H. I can't recall if Zastava does it too. I know they open up forward for feeding but I can't picture whether the groove is cut.

Standard-length magnum FNs and magnum Interarms Mark Xs have the half-moon cut at 12 o'clock.

too much metal removal for my liking;
http://www.waffenjung.de/html/fertigung.html

quote:

Originally posted by fla3006:
Standard-length magnum FNs and magnum Interarms Mark Xs have the half-moon cut at 12 o'clock.

By "standard length" do you mean 375H&H length?

I have an FN in 375 that came with the notch, but mt MK-X in 7mmRM does not have the notch.

I believe this is Selby's Rigby, assuming I can get the image to post.

quote:

JBrown: By "standard length" do you mean 375H&H length? I have an FN in 375 that came with the notch, but mt MK-X in 7mmRM does not have the notch.

All commercial FN Deluxe or Supreme and Yugoslav Zastava Mausers are standard length, as opposed to true magnum length Mausers. I think you are correct that only those opened up in front for the 375 have the cut, can't recall on my 458 or 7 mag. I recall my Brevex Mausers (true magnum length) also have small cuts, like the #20 Oberndorf pictured above by Dago Red, I guess to better accomodate 416-based or 505 length cartridges.

quote:

I believe this is Selby's Rigby, assuming I can get the image to post.

Yes it is. There was an article about three years ago in either G&A or Rifleshooter where the usual suspects put some rounds through the Selby rifle. Their main comment was that it was so well balanced, it came to the shoulder like a bespoke shotgun, and the recoil was not bad, FWIW.

You may want to reach out to "Mule Deer" (gunwriter John Barsness) over at 24hourcampfire.com, he has examined & shot Selby's rifle and may be able to provide some insight & details for your project.

This is almost funny, one dago to another. I was just discussing the same thing with Mike McCabe. I have a Peruvian with that notch. It's gonna be a 9.3x57 and I told him I wanted to weld it up! I don't mind it, but thought it looked odd with a shorter cartridge. One mans meat...

Man walnut, you're crazy! I have two argentine actions in the safe, whenever they make it out to a gunsmith I think at least one of them is going to end up with this treatment.

quote:

Originally posted by John55:
I believe this is Selby's Rigby, assuming I can get the image to post.

Nice looking open-sight, rifle.That's the way they should look,IMO-rounded receiver,mauser safety,slightly extended bolt handle,obendorf style stock,no ebony forend tip,24 or 25 inch barrel.