I've got a few questions concerning stock strength for the big bores gunsmiths.

I have started a project to build a rifle in 470 Capstick. The donor rifle is a 1 year old M70 Classic Safari Express currently chambered in 416 Rem Mag. My plans are to use the existing Safari Express stock. The stock is decent looking and I have a limited budget. The action has already been pillar bedded with aluminum pillars and Accragel as the bedding compound.

1. Is the stock I plan to use going to be strong enough to handle the increased recoil of the 470 over the 416? All other things being equal, the recoil calculates to be about 15% to 20% greater with the 470.

2. How important is the second recoil lug on the barrel? If properly bedded (pillar bed with steel bed or similar) can I get away with out the second recoil lug?

3. If the second recoil lug needs to be installed on the barrel, what is the best method of doing so?

[ 10-09-2002, 20:46: Message edited by: David ]

David,

I have an M-70 .470 Capstick which uses the original stock. It has a secondary recoil lug on the barrel. Both recoil lug recesses are 'glass bedded. The gun is not pillar bedded.

The .470 Capstick recoils with 74 ft.-.lbs of recoil in my 10.75lb. gun. That is all I care for (and then some). You need to work up to this level slowly and carefully.

I think the barrel recoil lug on my gun is TIG welded on; I really don't know. You have to be careful that the 'smith doesn't introduce stresses into the barrel at the juncture of the two pieces by heating the barrel up too much.

Jack Belk and John Ricks can answer these questions from a technical perspective.

George

GeorgeS

About your 470 Capstick. Did you start out with a Safari express in another calibler and rebarrel like I am doing, or did you get this one from the Winchester Custom Shop originally as a 470 Capstick? This bit of info may influence my decision on what to do about the stock. Just in case you didn't already know, Winchester's custom shop lists the 470 Capstick for about $2600.

My 416 has the recoil lug on the barrel, and like yours, it appears to be TIG welded, but they put it on crooked. It's cocked about 30 deg on the barrel and in order to get the rifle to shoot straight, I had to free-float that lug. It caused the barrel to pull to the right under recoil and the POI on a taget at 50 yds was over 18" to the right of where it should have been. It was impossible to adjust a scope or the iron sights to even get it close. This is also one of the reasons why this particular rifle is going to be a donor for the new caliber. I have another M70, also a 416 Safari Express, that has the barrel recoil lug installed properly. It shoot good right out of the box.

Some one else had mentioned the copper gathering abilities of their M70 416 barrels a year or so ago and these two hold true to form in that respect. After 5 shots, they are copper mines and the lands, as far as you can see into the muzzle, are copper plated.

[ 10-09-2002, 22:15: Message edited by: David ]

Nope, it's a re-barrel from .375 (Pac-Nor barrel). At the time, Winchester did not offer the .470, and personally, I would not want them to build a rifle for me (my only Custom Shop rifle is a 'Sporting SharpShooter' in 7mmSTW that was actually built for the USRAC Custom Shop by H-S Precision).

I think you should contact USRAC and describe the flaw in workmanship. There is no reason to let it slide. They should replace the barrel without argument.

Then, once you get it back, you can sell the barrel to someone who needs it. That will help offset the cost of your .470.

I've got five M-70s made in 1997-1998; none of them fouls excessively.

George

David- I built a 450Ackley mag on a M70 Classic express and used the original stock. It has two cross bolts and seems to be working just fine! No cracks or problems! IMHO the second recoil lug is a necessity and the best way to secure one is by a combination of drilling and tapping the barrel followed by Hi- Force 44 soldering. My second lugs are made from 1 inch bar stock milled to just match the barrel contour, then drilled for a single 8-32 screw. I essentially use the same approach as John Ricks and use the screw as a guide for soldering the lug to the barrel. you need to use an air-acetylene torch to get the heat just right! It has worked extremely well for me. I steel bed the second lug first, then in a separte operation the action recoil lug and tang. If you try and do this all at once you may never get the barreled action out of the stock. 470 MBOGO used this approach on his latest big bore and was quite pleased with the results! hope this helps-Rob

[ 10-09-2002, 23:42: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

I'm of the firm opinion that if you don't put a secondary barrel lug on a big bore, you are just asking for trouble. The second lug should be less then a new stock, and w/o the lug it's just a question of when, not if it'll fail.

I suppose the "best" would be an integral lug, but that is mucho coin starting with an oversize blank and whittling it down.

David,

I have owned 3 Model 70s in 458 and with all three I bedded the action and completely free floated the barrel, that is, I did not use the barrel recoil lug. All was fine. However, The 470 Capstick will kick harder and I am not sure I would want to travel on a serious hunt with a gun of 458 and up with no second recoil lug.

On Wby actions, I have had about a 1/4" machined off each side of the recoil lug so it will fit through a steel bar several inches long by about 1 inch wide and a 1/4" thick. This bar is full of holes and is epoxied into the forend. I guess in some ways this is making the wood stock somewhat similar to those fiber glass stocks with the aluminium inserts.

I have never had it done to a Model 70, but it would be OK. A bit more fiddly perhaps because of the postion of the front screw in the Model 70 as compared to the Wby action.

I prefer this system to a second lug because once set up it makes life easier, especially if you want to switch around between calibers.

Probably, if I was a "hunter" and not a "shooter" and was going to have a 470 Capstick made up for genuine hunting, then I would just get the gunsmith to fit a recoil lug to the barrel.

Mike

The smith I use states that he would reccomend a barrel lug on anything more powerful than a .375 H&H.

Thanks to all for the info and advice. In addition, I talked to John Ricks and he was very helpful and I will be sending the rifle to him to do the rebarrel job.