I see a few makers:
Border,Broughton,PacNor,ROCK,Schneider,HsPrec.10x,
-prices vary a bit.
Also needs to be faster twist,like between 1:8 - 1:9 (.30cal)

Obermeyer.

quote:

Originally posted by Chisana:
Obermeyer.

X2.

I have a new obermeyer (less than 100 rds) on a 700 action chambered on 308 f/s. send a pm for pics. It's set up for long range matches.

I've used Mike Rocks barrel and it is superb! I would recommend it to anyone.

boots obermyer makes 5R barrels as does Bartelien no flies on either of these makers
Daniel

What do you think a 5R will do for you that standard rifling won't?
Butch

In F-class 1000 yd matches Broughton does VERY well, usually in 6.5-284 or various 6 BR based cartridges.

Butch:

You know 5R, 5C, and Ratchet rifling will shoot faster, further and last longer.

Almost sounds like and add for personal lubricant doesn't it?

Thought you needed a laugh your thread sounded so serious.

happy holidays.
Nat

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
I see a few makers:
Border,Broughton,PacNor,ROCK,Schneider,HsPrec.10x,

As I have heard, you will wait forever for a Schneider even though they are good bbls.

I have a new Obermeyer 30 cal 11T 5R bbl and it is excellent. I have a Bartlien 6.5mm 5R 8T gain twist on the way. The benefits to the "R" or "C" style rifling are fertile grounds for discussion, however, it does make sense that they will clean easier. The Broughton is canted on one side only if I recall, as where the true "R" barrels are canted on both sides of the lands, such as Bartlien and Obermeyer.

The other nice thing about an Obermeyer is his new land/groove depth ratio. My 30 cal is .298-.308.

Allegedly, there is also benefit to the Russian style of rifling in terms of velocity. I think this may simply be variable.

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:

quote:

Originally posted by Chisana:
Obermeyer.

X2.

I have a new obermeyer (less than 100 rds) on a 700 action chambered on 308 f/s. send a pm for pics. It's set up for long range matches.

PM sent regarding this barreled action.

5-R rifling in modern times has been a development of the Russkies, though it was also popular about 50 years before they started using it in their winning Olympic rifles.

Boots Obermeyer revived the use here in the 'States and added his own developments. He taught at least two students of his who are now making barrels how to do it the way Boots thought best. They are Mike Rock and John Krieger.

Those, three, Obermeyer, Rock, and Krieger would be in my top four preferences. The fourth is Border Barrels. Any one of the four will do just fine for competition.

...And Tracy Bartlein and Frank Green worked for Krieger.

Ergo....

flaco

I believe the Germans experimented with 5R rifling uring WWI. Don't know if the stole the idea from the Ruskies or the Ruskies stole the ieda from the Germans. I was told Boots got started with 5R as a result of the German technology.
Longshot

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
The other nice thing about an Obermeyer is his new land/groove depth ratio. My 30 cal is .298-.308.

Doc,
.298" is maybe too tight. GSC recommends .300" for their HV design. To squeeze the Hv bullet any tighter would likely take way the low tention-pressure advantage the banded HV design offers.
Lothar Polygon barrels are .297" nominal bore.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
What do you think a 5R will do for you that standard rifling won't?
Butch

Butch,

It has been proven by independent tests (White Labs) that Polygonal/canted-radius cornered rifling increases muzzle velocity.
It is also reported that cleaning is easier and barrel life longer.
what dont you value about all that?
I may be the kind of fellow who likes to get better out of cartridge, so I may choose a longer than 22" tube, radius cornered rifling over std. rifling,& maybe banded bullets over lesser designs.
That way I can more easily achieve velocities that others would be strained for.

I suppose one could ask all sort of questions about rifles, like:
why does one need an much more expensive fancy walnut blank, over one that has no ultra fancy grain but still great layout...It not going to make the rifle shoot or hunt any better, right?

...and who really needs integral featured barrels,engraving, best inletting, best metal finish,or custom QD rings....when Leupold QR have proven thenselves...Etc, etc

quote:

Originally posted by Longshot:
I believe the Germans experimented with 5R rifling uring WWI. Don't know if the stole the idea from the Ruskies or the Ruskies stole the ieda from the Germans. I was told Boots got started with 5R as a result of the German technology.
Longshot

There were several 5R type rifling patterns in the 19th century.

Trax,
Can you point me to the proof that the White Labs have?
I don't understand how the rest of your post relates to my question.
Butch

Butch,
contact Woody at LW and tell him that his poly barrels dont make a difference...and while your at it, call H&K to tell them their military poly bore development&testing dont mean anything.
If you want information about White Lab results, talk to Chris at Pacnor.

Do you have contact for White? I sure as hell wouldn't believe anything that came out of Woody's mouth. He is in the same boat as Bill Wiseman in my opinion and my opinion of either is so small you wouldn't believe. Trax, I don't believe that MV is the answer to accuracy by itself.
Butch

Many years ago i tested some H&K polygonal barrel.
They shot excelent with some leadcore bullets, but was hopless with monometal and partition nosler type bullets.
Yes they gave higher muzzlevelocity, but also higher presure (because of the better bullet sealing)
They were tested for targetshooting, and showed apx 5 times longer lifetime. But never succeded because of accuracy problems.

By using proper lappingteknique on ordinar cutrifeled barrels, you can also get apx 5% higher velocity, without higher presure.

I ame sure that all the mentioned barrelmakers that uses cutrifeling teknik, delivers outstanding quality. Whatever rifelingshape they make, i ame sure they could produce barrels that shoots better shoots faster, cleans easier and keep accuracy longer, than most other makers, but i doubt that it is because of the 5R rifeling.

I know of some using 3R, 4R. 5R, 6R rifelings, they all works well.
The same about most other well finished 3 , 4 , 5, 6 grooved standard cutrifelings.

After all it comes down to well finished

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
...Woody at LW....

That was your first mistake...

Border make some lovely 5R barrels, l've got one in a 7-08 chambering and with 130smk's l'm ok out to about 1000yrds on a good day. Will be trying some SMK150's and maybe a few 162 A-Max's in the near future.
lt's right that speed's not everything, and l've come to learn that it's better to hit the target accurately at moderate speed than poorly bloody fast......

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I dont believe MV is the answer to accuracy by itself.
Butch

I never stated MV is the answer to accuracy, but if I can get more mv for the same effort and possibly the same accuracy, Ill take it.
and as I said before, If you want information on White labs results contact Chris at Pacnor.

I'm gathering that you talked to Chris about this? What kind of velocity increase is proven?
Trax, I'm trying to learn something. I know the barrelmakers have experimented with various land and groove shapes over the years. I'll bet 95% of all barrels produced by our custom makers are the standard land and grooves.
Butch

Butch:
I'm with you here. Dan and I fit up 150 to 200 barrels a year, mostly for target shooters.

From the 20 years of doing this, with a good portion of the top shooters in the US in prone, F Class and Any, Any rifle comps for customers, there is no discernable advantage from one or the other style of rifling. What it all boils down to is: A GOOD BARREL IS A GOOD BARREL, REGUARDLESS OF THE MAKER. Velocity variations are a fact of life. I've seen consecutive serial #'s from the same maker vary as much as 100 fps with the same reamer and load. Go figure!

Now for something to piss of the peons:

It is my understanding (from the horse's mouth) that Boots has tought a lot of folks how to make cut rifle barrels. He is very giving in that he has never asked any of them (to my knowledge)for a dime in exchange. Just that he be left in peace to make 5R design barrels. He tought Jack, and Jack has never, ever made a 5R. He tought Geoff Kolbe, and Geoffe pays him a royalty for every one of the 5R's he makes.
He also tought Mike Rock, who has screwed him ever since. For that, I will never have a Rock in my shop, ever.

Tim North, Frank and Stacey aqnd probably more did not learn from Boots. They are not obligated. A man is only as good as his word.

Alan

Let the shit storm begin!

Alan, my experiences mirror yours closely. I learned my smithing back in the '60s from the same fellow who taught Boots to make barrels back in the '50s, Bill Prator of Trinidad, and I have the utmost respect for Boots and his willingness to help novice barrelmakers. In the past he has sent me much info about his operations and equipment and took time from his busy schedule to address my questions in a fine and gentlemanly manner. IMO he's The Man.
Regards, Joe

J.D., I wish that I was not the stupid kid that I was and went to Trinidad at that time. I think you were blessed to be there at that time.
Butch

quote:

...And Tracy Bartlein and Frank Green worked for Krieger.

..and Mark Chanlin in Colorado. Used to have a shop in Boulder but I think he's a little farther north but still building great barrels.

My Bartlein Palma 5R is a hammer - in fact, I have the stamped barrel stub here in my pocket ..

It's a 13 twist, .298/.3075, pretty standard for the application. Cleans like a dream, too.

My two cents,

Mark

Butch, I wish I was not the stupid kid that I was at that time, and had paid more attention! BTW it looks like you've done OK in spite of it, you're a lot more famous (or is it notorious, G) than I am. I will always be grateful to Bill Prator and Ed Shulin for trying to teach me what good work was all about.
Regards, Joe