I just got a 50 caliber muzzleloader that has a joke of a rear sight, and I've decided to just make a new peep sight for it. Any suggestions as to what size I should make the aperture? Here are a few specifics- longest range would be 100 yards with most shots taken around 40-50, and most hunting will be done early morning or evening so twilight ability is a premium.

I have most any drill size so if you have found an oddball size to work best let me know too. Also, this will be mounted on the tang as opposed to further up on the barrel. And I don't mind starting small and opening it up a little if I need to, but why bother if I can get it right by asking you guys!

Thanks,

Mark

Hi Mark
I use a Williams twilight .150" size aperture for hunting and a .050" aperture for target shooting.
The bigger the aperture the faster you can acquire the target and a large aperture is great for poor light conditions.
Regards
Deafdog

------------------
deafdog@turboweb.net.au
http://deafdog.turboweb.net.au

For hunting you will want to use a fairly large ap. Buy a few and see which allows you to view an animal at twilight and dusk. Doing it in the middle of the day doesn't help. And don't look at a bullseye target. There's a huge difference between the contrast of a black bull on white paper and the brown fur of a deer against a fall background.

Jeff,

Thanks for the suggestion about looking at an animal as opposed to just a black bullseye, but I intend to drill the aperture into the sight rather than thread it for inserts. This is to be a gun to have limited use, namely whitetail hunting in woods, and other than doing the job right I don't have any particular urge to spend a lot of time making something fancy.

Deafdog, thanks for the recommendation! I was thinking about using a 1/8" (.125) aperture lacking any other suggestions, and if .150 works for you I have no problems opening it up a little more.

The fastest and the way all mine are set up is to just remove the disc and use it as a ghost aperture....the disk just gets in the way....All these guys are too young to talk about iron sights they been sucking on scopes since they were babies

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Mark, could you describe how you plan to build and mount the sight? I've been tossing around the same kind of idea for a shotgun. Will it be adjustable?

Listen to Ray. Put the aperture in your pocket while hunting. Lyman makes a really nice muzzle loader sight. Check it out. If you are going to scratch build a sight, maybe a 1/8" hole. Sounds big and inaccurate, huh??? It is not. Try a peep sighted rifle with and without the insert. You will find little difference in your group size. A small hole will kill your ability to shoot in poor light. It is like coming out of the sun into a dim room. Your pupil is too small to see. You need time for it to adjust and let it expand. Same with your rifle sight. Other thing, your eye will automatically, with no concious effort, center the front sight in the aperture. The size of the hole does not matter. A TINY hole will bring the front sight and target into focus at the same time, due to a different optical principle. It is not a practical hunting sight though.
Just re-read your post.....1/4" ??? 40-50 yards, that will work great and much better than open sights. Maybe do the experiment. Drill some holes of various sizes in pennies or some handy piece of metal, even poke holes in tin foil, and see what works. Stand outside at dusk and report back. There is so much conjecture on stuff like this yet, no body seems to test the thoeries.

[This message has been edited by scot (edited 10-19-2001).]

Ray,

Would it be inconvenient for you to give me a guestimate or caliper reading as to what your aperture hole might be when you remove the disk? 3/16" or so, or would it just be what a #12 bolt would be? Thanks!

FB,

I'll try to post a drawing of it tonite, otherwise I'll post a pic over the weekend when I make it! I'm not really planning on making it adjustable, kinda in the DGR concept but once I get a load figured out for the gun I'll zero the sight and learn how much holdover I need at 125 yds as there is no way I'll be hunting at a longer distance than that with this gun. I'm planning on drifting the front sight for windage, and filing the base of the rear sight or the top of the front sight once I get a good hunting load dialed that will give me small groups. What sort of shotgun do you want one for?

Actually about .125 is minimal size for hunting..larger is better, say .150...

As a matter of fact I shot a PH's rifle (9.3x62) in Africa that had a 1/2" hole in his homemake peep ( piece of angle iron ) and that baby would put them all in a 50 cent piece at 75 yds. off hand....You just put the front sight on the target and hit it...simple and effective, easy to shoot with both eyes open....

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Hello Mark

I do not shoot any irons but peep sights well, and all of my rifles that have iron sights have peeps on them, including three Savage 24s. One of our best human perceptions is centering an object within another object, and the peep sights is designed around this reliable principle.

The latest rig is a Mossberg rifled 20 gauge, and it has a Williams sight without any insert, which gives it an aperture of about 3/16". If I had it handy with my calipers I'd measure it.

Tom

I have the Scattergun Tech Ghost Ring Peep on my 870 slug gun and it works fine for large targets under 100m.

Peep diameter is .20

Ray,
I may be young but I've shot more than my fair share of game with an aperture sight and shot my way into Master Class using open sights on my M1A. There are plenty of old farts in the world. A goodly portion of them are old fools to boot.

The old Husqvarna peep sight on my SAKO M98 has a 2 millimeter (1/12")aperture. It�s good enough in the twilight, but a scope is better during this time of the day.

Have a look of the Husqvarna peep sight, the "Jaktdiopter": http://hem.bredband.net/b102212/m46.html
(I have posted this link before.)

Fritz

Mark (and Ray) - angle iron is exactly what I had in mind, too, along with filing the front sight (or trying different heights) and drifting it for windage. I had sorta planned on using a 1/2" slice of 1"x1"x1/8" angle, with the vertical leg cut down to 3/4" or so, with about a 3/16" to 1/4" hole drilled though it. It's for a Mossberg 590, which is already drilled & tapped, with a flat spot on top of the receiver.

I had planned on (somehow) measuring how high my eye is above the receiver, and centering the aperture there, then trying different front blades from Ashley, which are available in 0.05" height increments.

TomP, where did you get the Williams for your Mossberg??

Well I started cutting on mine already.

FB I'm making mine out of 1/2" plate so it has a little more subtle profile than just a piece of angle iron. I tell you what though, if I were to make it out of angle iron I'd go 3/16, drill the aperture I wanted (I think I'm leaning towards 3/16") the countersink it from the backside with a 1/4" or 5/16 drill. It is just a quick and easy second step and would make it look a lot nicer....

Oh, I looked up what Williams offers on my handy Brownells catalog and they have a "WGRS" that will fit Ith 37's and Rem 870's but it doesn't say anything about Mossbergs.

Another interesting thing (actually it just shows how stupid I am!) is that since I'm in the process of moving to a new house most all of my metalworking tools are at the new abode 300 miles away (lathe, drill press, most all of my grinders, etc..) so I'm doing this one pretty much all by hand, hacksaws and files. I guess some call it therapy, others call it stupidity...

Sorry I haven't gotten around to posting any drawings, I have one here that I roughed out in CAD but I've already modified the sight a little, so maybe I'll just post the pic of the sight when I'm done.

FB,
Sounds sound to me...keep it small and use the New England Arms partridge front sight thats 800 high, then file it down to zero, simplifies life and it will hold a zero forever..

Jeff.
Nice to know what a good shot you are, I'm really impressed, I was only kidding some of the regulars on this board who I consider good friends, relax you'll live longer...

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com