What is a reasonable turnaround time for a gunsmith to slow rust blue and install a customer provided 3-position safety on a CZ-550 action?


Back in mid December of 2019, I took my semi-custom CZ-550 rifle along with a 3-position safety to Lohman Gunsmith located here in Houston.

After 3 telephone calls, two visits to their shop, one email inquiring about the status of the rifle, and 7-1/2 months, I still have not been notified that my rifle is ready for pickup.

Initially, their representative advised me via telephone that they would have to rent a tool to "clean up" the threads.

During my visit to their shop last month, I was advised by their representative that they are having problems with their rust bluing process.

Thanks in advance for y'alls feedback regarding reasonable turnaround times.

quote:

Originally posted by Cajun1956:
What is a reasonable turnaround time for a gunsmith to slow rust blue and install a customer provided 3-position safety on a CZ-550 action?


Back in mid December of 2019, I took my semi-custom CZ-550 rifle along with a 3-position safety to Lohman Gunsmith located here in Houston.

After 3 telephone calls, two visits to their shop, one email inquiring about the status of the rifle, and 7-1/2 months, I still have not been notified that my rifle is ready for pickup.

Initially, their representative advised me via telephone that they would have to rent a tool to "clean up" the threads.

During my visit to their shop last month, I was advised by their representative that they are having problems with their rust bluing process.

Thanks in advance for y'alls feedback regarding reasonable turnaround times.

Sound to me that they haven't even started yet...and rent a tool? That's how often they have done this?

I would just get the gun back and find someone else

A "reasonable" time is subjective, but probably the normal time that it takes them to do that job, which they should have informed you of when you left your rifle there.

One excuse might be legitimate. Two excuses sounds questionable. If it were me I would stop in and pick up my part and then look elsewhere

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it were me I would stop in and pick up my part and then look elsewhere

Yep! Most gunsmith are a pain in the ass!

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Originally posted by Cajun1956:
During my visit to their shop last month, I was advised by their representative that they are having problems with their rust bluing process.

Their problem sure as heck can't be lack of humidity!

Slow rust blue is in my mind a very operator dependent thing.

If they are the folks you want doing it, then it takes the time it takes.

The safety part should be the least of it.

If they told you they are having issues with their bluing, that probably means either they are good folks with issues getting stuff due to COVID, or they are sending it out and COVID caught them as their supplier is not “essential” and .... for when they will be caught up.

Another jerk around by the gunsmith story. All too common, anymore. Get your rifle back and tell him/them to piss up a rope.

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Originally posted by craigster:
Another jerk around by the gunsmith story. All too common, anymore. Get your rifle back and tell him/them to piss up a rope.

Yep, communication is great right up to the point they recieve your parts and deposit, then ........... crickets.

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Originally posted by crbutler:
Slow rust blue is in my mind a very operator dependent thing.

If they are the folks you want doing it, then it takes the time it takes.

The safety part should be the least of it.

If they told you they are having issues with their bluing, that probably means either they are good folks with issues getting stuff due to COVID, or they are sending it out and COVID caught them as their supplier is not “essential” and .... for when they will be caught up.

Operator dependent? 7 1/2 mo for rust bluing/installing a 3 pos safety? And they haven't even started. The "operators" need to pay more attention to their operation.

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen.

I will make plans to recover my rifle on Friday.

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the slow rust bluing process.

Back in either late 2018 or early 2019, I forwarded the CZ-550 rifle chambered in 7x57 to Triple River Gunsmithing (CZ Custom Shop) located in Warsaw, Missouri.

Triple River slow rust blued the barreled action, slimmed up the walnut stock, and installed NECG safari sights.

If I recall correctly, their turnaround time was less than six or seven weeks.

To date, Triple River is my only data point with regards to slow rust bluing turnaround time.

I'm still kicking myself in the arse for not asking them to install a 3-position safety at that time.

I just Googled Triple River Gunsmithing and it appears that they are permanently closed.

Can anyone provide me with an update on their status?

Thanks in advance!

Harry Pope and P.O. Ackley both are reliably reported to have had definitive views on this subject.

They supposedly told prospective customers that if they needed to know when their work would be done, they should take it elsewhere!

Some, like Pope and Ackley, could get away with that and still keep ‘em coming back for more.

Some, but not many.

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Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Harry Pope and P.O. Ackley both are reliably reported to have had definitive views on this subject.

They supposedly told prospective customers that if they needed to know when their work would be done, they should take it elsewhere!

Some, like Pope and Ackley, could get away with that and still keep ‘em coming back for more.

Some, but not many.

Moot point, that was then, this is now. Both were talented, both were arrogant.

Nope. But in case you misunderstood me . . .

Both were old men who were the best at what they did, and who worked long, hard days delivering to all comers the best to be had in the custom gunsmithing line of work.

They were men who promised only that much, and who gave their customers a clear choice to go elsewhere, if that was not good enough.

That’s the opposite of arrogant. It’s a promise and bargain made, on terms workable enough for some gunsmiths, but not many, both then and especially now.

And it’s a far sight better than incompetents promising more than they can deliver by a delivery date certain and agreed upon - and then ending up being months late - which happens far too often.

There is a middle ground in there somewhere. I’ve been lucky enough to find it a few times, but missed it just as often.

About 25 years ago we had a retired military gent who took to bluing in his retirement. He would drive from his home in west Texas all the way to Austin + hit every gun store on the way. He made a run every 2 weeks, picking up bluing jobs + dropping off finished jobs. If memory serves he was charging $60.00 for a full rifle bluing job. He did a great business. At that volume, it took him no time to pay off his bluing tanks. I haven't seen him in years but just for G.P., this could be a great idea for someone wanting to start a small business. It worked for him.

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Originally posted by NormanConquest:
About 25 years ago we had a retired military gent who took to bluing in his retirement. He would drive from his home in west Texas all the way to Austin + hit every gun store on the way. He made a run every 2 weeks, picking up bluing jobs + dropping off finished jobs. If memory serves he was charging $60.00 for a full rifle bluing job. He did a great business. At that volume, it took him no time to pay off his bluing tanks. I haven't seen him in years but just for G.P., this could be a great idea for someone wanting to start a small business. It worked for him.

Adjusted for inflation, that $60 is the equivalent to $103 today. Anyone who is a "gunsmith" for profit is required a FFL. Along with that FFL and obtaining one are a lot of requirements. $103 for a bluing job?! You must be kidding! The equipment cost isn't much, but the chemical is, and it comes 'hazmat', just like primers and powder. And, that chemical doesn't last forever, you are constantly adding it to the 'mix'. To order enough chemical to get started, it'll be shipped by truck. I've seen some $100 blue jobs and I'm darned glad they weren't on any of my firearms! There's a lot more to re-bluing a firearm than just taking it apart and dunking it in the tank. Today, proper polishing is almost an are form. Few are really good at it, just like stock making, few are good at that, too....

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Originally posted by JTEX:

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it were me I would stop in and pick up my part and then look elsewhere

Yep! Most gunsmith are a pain in the ass!

Here in the Houston area, we sure have a high number of gunsmith wannabe's.

I had a local gunsmith install an EOTech optic on my tactical shotgun (LEO patrol). I took the shotgun to the range to sight it in for slugs. After the first shot, the optic came loose. I dismantled the optic and base and discovered that the gunsmith had failed to remove the metal shavings and cutting oil after he drilled and tapped the shotgun to mount the base. The metal shavings and lubrication oil was acting like a shim and worked loose after the first shot.

I took one of my long range rifles to a local gunsmith to 'properly' mount a long range rifle scope. I asked if I could watch him mount the scope. When he mounted the scope in the rings, he 'eyeballed' the scope's alignment. I asked why he didn't use a level alignment device, he responded that he was blessed with good eyesight and didn't need a level device.

On another occasion, I took one of my CZ-550 dangerous game rifles to a local gunsmith to cut down and re-crown the barrel. When I returned home with the rifle, I discovered metal shavings still attached to the re-crown area. I took a small file and scrapped the attached metal shavings from the re-crown area. The shavings attached to the rifling were dislodged after a few shots.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Harry Pope and P.O. Ackley both are reliably reported to have had definitive views on this subject.

They supposedly told prospective customers that if they needed to know when their work would be done, they should take it elsewhere!

Some, like Pope and Ackley, could get away with that and still keep ‘em coming back for more.

Some, but not many.

Don't know about Ackley, but Pope died broke.

quote:

Originally posted by Cajun1956:
What is a reasonable turnaround time for a gunsmith to slow rust blue and install a customer provided 3-position safety on a CZ-550 action?


Back in mid December of 2019, I took my semi-custom CZ-550 rifle along with a 3-position safety to Lohman Gunsmith located here in Houston.

After 3 telephone calls, two visits to their shop, one email inquiring about the status of the rifle, and 7-1/2 months, I still have not been notified that my rifle is ready for pickup.

Initially, their representative advised me via telephone that they would have to rent a tool to "clean up" the threads.

During my visit to their shop last month, I was advised by their representative that they are having problems with their rust bluing process.

Thanks in advance for y'alls feedback regarding reasonable turnaround times.

Lohman has good reviews online, so I took a couple firearms there early this year to be worked on (fix a pistol after-market trigger install that I screwed up, work on a bolt action rifle). Reasonably quick inspecting and generating a work list, but then silence for weeks once I gave the go-ahead. Much like yourself, I reached a point where I was tired of them being in possession of my firearms and one of my silencers. The work miraculously got completed after I called to get an appointment to take back my firearms.

Mechanically the work was good - rifle went from something I was ready to wrap around a tree to 5-shots, one ragged hole. Disappointing that I had to remove the stock and remove the tape and gel that they left while glass-bedding. Poor at best.

If a gunsmith was responsive and took a little pride in their work, they would have more business than they could possibly handle in the Houston area.

Three's two sides...I have,in my shop seven "started" projects that in three cases are decades old..the yougest over three years.

"Not ready to proceed" (i.e no money) "Shit, kinda forgot" "Ill get bask to you"

Guess who's responsible for those gun parts in he event of loss?

Well the thing about rust blueing is it's really a batch process ... you need to do about 10 items together at a time or it's a lot of boiling for little joy. So they are either waiting to accumulate a bunch of other items, or yours missed the bus. They should have explained this when they took on the work.

You should also know that small items with lots of hard edges don't lend themselves to rust blueing. They are hard to card without leaving shiny edges. That's why the English used charcoal blueing or color case for smaller items. Generally only the barrels were rust blued.

silvers you are correct that the buffing is the most important part of the process; if you do a lousy buffing job, regardless of grit, you'll have a lousy job. The bluing only coats it, it doesn't hide anything, good or bad. I still have one tank left + all my wheels but even then that guy was so reasonable that he was worth using. He did good work + considering his area of shops, he made a decent addition to supplement his retirement income. I recall Bob Brownell writing that if one wants to become a competent gunsmith, he should take up bluing, as one HAS to take everything down to base parts.

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Originally posted by NormanConquest:
silvers you are correct that the buffing is the most important part of the process; if you do a lousy buffing job, regardless of grit, you'll have a lousy job. The bluing only coats it, it doesn't hide anything, good or bad. I still have one tank left + all my wheels but even then that guy was so reasonable that he was worth using. He did good work + considering his area of shops, he made a decent addition to supplement his retirement income. I recall Bob Brownell writing that if one wants to become a competent gunsmith, he should take up bluing, as one HAS to take everything down to base parts.

In todays' world, a reputable shop could not give customer owner firearms to an unlicensed bluing shop (or any other unlicensed shop or individual, other than the person that carried the firearm in) without filling out 4473s and doing background checks. Obtaining a FFL entails a bite more than it used to. Ask me how I know,,, I just finished the transition from 01 to 07. Several years ago, there was a guy doing hot bluing around here. He 'made' shiny jobs, the trouble was he was real good at rounding off corners and sharp edges and washing out any stamping/lettering to the point that some serial numbers were completely illegible. He wasn't licensed and he obviously had no training. There's much more to it than meets the eye! That's why good bluing shops are getting fewer and further between. It takes some skills, more than taking a 1911 apart and putting it back together. It's not a "wanna-be" a gunsmith job, and there seem to be plenty of those nation wide these days.

Gentlemen, thanks for providing us with a better understanding of slow rust bluing, concerns, issues, limitations, and other nuances associated with the process.

Cajun1956 - PM sent.