Thinking of re-barreling my 77MkII (currently in 270) to 6.5 Swede.

Looking around, I see I can get a prechambered, profiled barrel from many of the major manufacturers for a lot less than it would cost to have done here in Oz.

Obvioulsy I have to get it fitted by a 'smith...

What are your opinions of these 'pre-fit' barrels? I'm thinking Douglas, Pac-Nor, Shilen premium or match grade tubes...

Thanks...

quote:

Originally posted by rugeruser:

Looking around, I see I can get a prechambered, profiled barrel from many of the major manufacturers for a lot less than it would cost to have done here in Oz.

Obvioulsy I have to get it fitted by a 'smith...

What are your opinions of these 'pre-fit' barrels? I'm thinking Douglas, Pac-Nor, Shilen premium or match grade tubes...

Thanks...

Well Dorothy, staying with your OZ theme, if you were to live in tornado country and wished to move, you could hire a pro to neatly relocate you, To To and Auntie Emm, or, you can go the cheaper route and let mother nature do it for less money. I think you will get better results if the pro does it.


FWIW, if you go the pre fit route and things aren't right, who you going to blame, the fitter or the manufacturer? Each will blame the other with you caught in the middle. I will always recommend picking a quality tube and having it threaded, chambered, crowned and fit by a pro, someone of known quality who will stand behind their work.

Rugeruser,
I have thought about doing the same to my 77MKII. I love the 6.5x55

Keep us informed what direction you go, cost etc.

This is just my opion, so take it however you want...I say go with a 6.5 barrel blank and have it copy turned and thded and so on. I like to see my barrels turn in the lathe like an arrow...straight. Pre-turned barrels are not as bad as factory, but still not as straight as one turned on a lathe from a blank! More time means more money, but its nice to know the dang thing is straight to begin with.

I personally can't see anything wrong with the idea except what are you going to do with the money saved,throw it away on ammunition? If you buy a pre turned and fitted barrel and have a smith fit it and comes up bad you can just accept it and go on or bitch. If you have a gunsmith do the entire job with him furnishing the barrel blank you only have him to complain to if it comes up bad but he can still blame the blank maker and you can accept it or bitch. It basically depends on the honesty and integrity of the gunsmith involved. If he is honest he will tell you the truth and you go from there. I would trust a major manufacturer to be perfectly competant to fit and turn one of their own barrels probably better than anyone else but at the least equally as good. I don't really know but I imagine all preturneds start as a blank and after rifling are then fitted and turned in a lathe as anyone would do it in any shop.

Too bad, some of the things a guy has to consider....

One of the tougher ones to force ourselves to work at is answering, "How honest is my local gunmsith?"

I know a gusmith in this area who sells and installs any kind of barrel you want...Hart, Shilen, etc. Only trouble is, when he gets them, lots are shipped from a place called "Douglas".

I never realized that until one of my friends I have known the longest gave him a barrel (as trade on some work) which was a new, unfired but chambered and fitted, Douglas.

Then another friend bought a Hart from him. Got a hell of a deal, it was fitted and chambered, but still new. Sound familiar? It should. Was the same Douglas barrel.

So, this being a small town, we began talking with yet another mutual friend who delivers that route for UPS. Guess where the great bulk of his barrels come from?

So, I guess one advantage to buying a pre-fitted barrel is: "You have a pretty good chance of knowing who REALLY made it......"

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Too bad, some of the things a guy has to consider....

One of the tougher ones to force ourselves to work at is answering, "How honest is my local gunmsith?"

I know a gusmith in this area who sells and installs any kind of barrel you want...Hart, Shilen, etc. Only trouble is, when he gets them, lots are shipped from a place called "Douglas".

I never realized that until one of my friends I have known the longest gave him a barrel (as trade on some work) which was a new, unfired but chambered and fitted, Douglas.

Then another friend bought a Hart from him. Got a hell of a deal, it was fitted and chambered, but still new. Sound familiar? It should. Was the same Douglas barrel.

So, this being a small town, we began talking with yet another mutual friend who delivers that route for UPS. Guess where the great bulk of his barrels come from?

So, I guess one advantage to buying a pre-fitted barrel is: "You have a pretty good chance of knowing who REALLY made it......"

Sounds like the gunsmith is living dangerously.
I am sure most shops could tell if they made particular barrel. You sure as heck can tell a lapped barrel from a non lapped barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

Sounds like the gunsmith is living dangerously.
I am sure most shops could tell if they made particular barrel. You sure as heck can tell a lapped barrel from a non lapped barrel.

One would think so, but it is surprising how many folks can't. This guy does a lot of mail-order business, so I suspect he really just doesn't care. He is a superb machinist too, so it is a damned shame.

Thanks guys,

but given many of the replies, I'm sorry I asked.

Having said that, there has been some useful info..

quote:

What are your opinions of these 'pre-fit' barrels? I'm thinking Douglas, Pac-Nor, Shilen premium or match grade tubes...

Anyone of these would be fine for Your project, all are good barrel makers!

Rugeruser, have you checked out whats involved in the paper trail to get something like a barrel out of the USA? It seems to be getting less & less user friendly all the time, certainly compared with a decade ago. I ask because I'm interested to go down this road for a 416 Taylor barrel. The chances of anyone having a Taylor reamer in NZ are slim in the extreme.
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by srtrax:

quote:

What are your opinions of these 'pre-fit' barrels? I'm thinking Douglas, Pac-Nor, Shilen premium or match grade tubes...

Anyone of these would be fine for Your project, all are good barrel makers!

Shinzo, yep... this will be part of a 'bulk purchase' with the guys from my club, who take their shooting and barrel life very seriously... they frequently get away to Camp Perry, and so on... and according to them, export isn't an issue - paperwork at this end is a bit more complex, but not too bad...

Chers,

Pete

Wasnt really bad mouthing pre-turned barrels, just that i turn my own barrels from a blank. I take light cuts, and my own experience is my turned blanks are more concentric. Takes longer, but than i'm not retailing them!

quote:

Originally posted by rugeruser:

Shinzo, yep... this will be part of a 'bulk purchase' with the guys from my club, who take their shooting and barrel life very seriously... they frequently get away to Camp Perry, and so on... and according to them, export isn't an issue - paperwork at this end is a bit more complex, but not too bad...

Cheers,

Pete

Thanks Pete, I was thinking Pac Nor, best I get in touch with them & get started, I think we might have slightly easier paper work this end than you guys.I hope.
Steve.

quote:

Originally posted by rugeruser:
What are your opinions of these 'pre-fit' barrels? I'm thinking Douglas, Pac-Nor, Shilen premium or match grade tubes...

I have been shooting Douglas, Pac-Nor, and Shilen barrels, and I think the best is Shilen Stainless Steel, as it is hand lapped at the factory.

Most any fat heavy barrel [sewer pipe] shooting light bullets can get a great group until the Copper fouling or warps when hot that degrades the accuracy.

Stress relieved and factory hand lapped barrels are better.

Thanks tnekkcc...

This will be a sporter weight barrel, hopefully turned to Ruger specs, so that I don't have to frig around with the bedding too much...

I'm primarlity a hunter, but I compete in Military Target shooting comps on a weekly basis...

I've owned a 'sewer pipe' in the past, and it was a right royal PITA to carry up hills...

Quick update...

finally went with PAC-NOR Prefit Stainless Super match grade, 24", 1:8 twist with PAC-NOR's #1 profile (close enough to Ruger's sporter dimensions) chambered in 6.5Swede.

Ordered on June 30, it arrived today without any hassles at all - our customs people didn't even open the packaging, or paperwork packets.

PAC-NOR were absolutely fantastic to deal with - very fast turnaround with emails (often within the hour), asked good questions and provided great advice as well.

The barrel is superb - I ran a patch through to have a look at the rifling, and accidentally caught a reflection of the sun... bloody hell!! The bore is shinier than any barrel I've ever seen!

If it shoots as good as it looks, I'll be a very happy camper.

Thats great / altho i have not used their product, i plan to in the future. Let us know what ya think of it as a shooter.
6.5x55 I have a Ruger #1 i'm going to do in that same chambering, when the half a million other things i have to do get done!
ENJOY

rugeruser - Just to throw in my two cents, I have dealt with PacNor and found the same results as you. Good folks to deal with and an excellent product. Ordered a pre-thread, pre-chamber in .204 Ruger and it came chambered too shallow to fit. Called them and they gave me three options, send another barrel at their expense, I send them the barrel and action and they would fit or they would send me the reamer and gauges (I chose that option) and cut the chamber myself. Great people!

srtrax,

I took the barrel and the host rifle (M77MkII) to my 'smith this afternoon, to have it all put together - he took one look at the bore and said:

"Wow!! That's good" which increases my confidence.

With regard to the chambering, as you probably already know, there are two 'specs' for the Swede - SAAMI (.473 rim/case head) and CIP (.480).. PAC-NOR use the CIP specs, which suits me fine, as it is easier to obtain European (CIP) ammo here than SAAMI (USA made)ammo - from talking with a few friends who have the Swede, it may create extra effort with FLS using Lee/RCBS dies, but for this little girl, I'll be neck sizing only...

I'll certainly let you all know how she shoots, but sometimes you just get a good 'feeling' about a barrel, and I have it with this one.

Privi Partisan (Highland is our local brand) ammo is cheap enough to discard the cases after a few reloads....

Masterifleman

Doesn't surprise me at all that PAC-NOR would offer those alternatives... my dealings with them were more like dealing with friends, rather than as 'suppliers'... hopefully what you experienced wont happen to me, however the 'smith I gave the work to is well known here for his ability with Swedes (he's converted hundreds of '96's to sporters, and if there are any issues with chamber dimensions, he has the reamers and guages to fix any problems... besides, given that I'm 'down under', I wouldn't expect them to ship reamers and guages to me....

Hehehehe...stay tuned - should be about two weeks until I get the rifle back, then a week or so to work up some loads, and then I'll either be crying my heart out, or crowing !!

Unless I am way wrong, I always thought a "pre-chambered" barrel had the chamber cut about .010 inches short to allow you to cut it exactly where you need it to get the proper headspace. The only one I know to be different is the Savage with its big nut that allows the user to headspace it by setting the barrel and cinching down the nut with a special wrench they give you...

Homebrewer,
here's how PAC-NOR describe their 'pre-fit' barrel:

"The prefit barrel comes to you with a short thread shank to be set back for proper head space..."

My understanding of this is that the shoulder is then set back to ensure correct headspace...

Either way, doesn't really worry me, as my 'smith has reamers for both SAAMI and CIP chambers...

Having said that, I welcome any comments you may have.. I'd prefer to prevent a problem, than try to fix it later.

quote:

"The prefit barrel comes to you with a short thread shank to be set back for proper head space..."

My understanding of this is that the shoulder is then set back to ensure correct headspace...

So it would seem that the barrel maker gives the gunsmith two avenues to achieve proper headspace? I'm no 'smith, but I'd want a definite tenon, screw the barrel in, tighten it to 100 lbs-ft, then ream for proper headspace. But that's just me...

Homebrewer, just to keep you in the loop, PAC-Nor tell me that shaving .005 - .006 off the shoulder will do the job - my 'smith agrees - apparently he's done this before.

Can't see that an extra 5 thou tenon would have any significant effect on accuracy...