Those of you who have actually rebarreled Remington model 700 actions to handle the .250-3000 Savage cartridge...

Have you experienced any problems getting the Remington .308 bolt & extractor to pull (extract) the .250 cartridge cases after firing?

If not, had you done anything to modify the bolt or extractor before firing? If you had extraction problems, how did you cure them?

Thanks for your recap of your experiences.

AC

The 250-300 case head should be within one or two thou. of the 308. I have built several 250 AI rifles and never had an extraction prob. I shot VH BR matches for 2 years with a 700 chambered in 6 PPC and never had a prob.

AC,

I have rebarreled many 700's for the 250 Savage with the majority being the AI version, but also haven't had any problems.

i've done several and have had no problems with the remingtons

Per what got registered with SAAMI:

The 250 Savage case head is .473 -.010"
The 308 case head is .473 - .010"

The 250 Savage chamber breech face is .4780 +.002" and is only a reference dimension.
The 308 chamber breech face is .4738 + .002" and is only a reference dimension.

What does it all mean?
Both cartridges inherited their case head designs from the rimless 1889 7.63x53mm Mauser cartridge.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:
Per what got registered with SAAMI:

The 250 Savage case head is .473 -.010"
The 308 case head is .473 - .010"

Correct. Just checked my SAAMI specs reference work.

Don't know how I got the idea into my skull that the .250 head diameter was smaller. Clearly it is not.

I also have had rifles (still have a few) using the PPC cartridges in the .308 bolt face with no alterations. Some work well, some do not, with that combination.

Didn't want to run into the same thing again with my .250 Sav I'm about to barrel.

Still don't know where I got that idea...I've owned a bunch of .250-3000s over the years.... Must be one of the glories of getting old...must have somehow confused its head diameter with that of the .25 Remington....

Anyway, thanks, guys.

AC

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Just checked my SAAMI specs reference work.

Don't know how I got the idea into my skull that the .250 head diameter was smaller.

AC,

I have a couple of charts on my wall from P.O. Ackley's Custom Rifle Shop that lists case dimensions for various cartridges, standard and wildcat, and some of these dimensions are clearly erroneous. For example, the 250 Savage case is listed as having a head diameter of.417...

A major difference between the .250 and .308 case is the dimension of the extractor groove on the .250 Savage is considerably narrower. This can cause issues on controlled feed rifles, but I've never heard of an issue with a Remington. Obviously the .250 case has more taper to it as well.

AC,
You could get the idea by measuring some lots of 250-3000 brass. I have a box of Winchester ammo downstairs which measures .2605 ahead of the extractor groove! The smallest so-called "standard head size" brass I've ever seen. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
AC,
You could get the idea by measuring some lots of 250-3000 brass. I have a box of Winchester ammo downstairs which measures .2605 ahead of the extractor groove! The smallest so-called "standard head size" brass I've ever seen. Regards, Bill.

Thanks Bill! May have been something similar to that at work...I could have sworn I once held the two heads (.250 Sav & .308 up against each other and noted that the Savage was noticeably smaller. Maybe I haven't fallen out of a walker onto my head, and am recalling that correctly after all.

I missed the extractor groove length
But I am happy to see a Bill Leeper post

The rim diameters are the same .473 - .010"
The groove diameters are the same .409 - .020"
The 250S groove is .033 + .010" long
The 308W groove is .055 + .010" long
The bevel in front of the groove is the same 36 - 6 degrees

I just measured some RP 250S brass under a microscope at .048" long extractor groove.
I just measured some Win 308 brass under a microscope at .063" long extractor groove.

It looks like the RP 250S brass does not meet SAAMI drawings.

Problem is after you look at the SAAMI drawings you may find that both .250 and .300 Savage case heads are smaller than .308 or .30/06 heads. So are .22/250 cases. What the factories say and what they do are sometimes different. So measure the brass. Also you need to look at both chamber and cartridge drawings. Sometimes a lot more clearance is designed into one cartridge/chamber combo than the next.
I think Remington used the same bolt and extractor set up for the .35 Remington, .250 Savage,.308 and the .220 Swift.

BTW original the 7.65 Mauser case head diameter is a about half way between .30/06 and European 6.5X55 brass.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
Problem is after you look at the SAAMI drawings you may find that both .250 and .300 Savage case heads are smaller than .308 or .30/06 heads. So are .22/250 cases. What the factories say and what they do are sometimes different. So measure the brass. Also you need to look at both chamber and cartridge drawings. Sometimes a lot more clearance is designed into one cartridge/chamber combo than the next.

BTW original the 7.65 Mauser case head diameter is a about half way between .30/06 and European 6.5X55 brass.

Excellent summary of the situation there ireload2... BTW, you are bang-on about the 7.65, if my experience means anything (sometimes it doesn't).

Don't want to change threads in mid-stream,but your observation about factory brass differing from SAAMI specs leads to another observation which may be of interest to some forum members:

When I chamber my hunting rifles, I use SAAMI spec gauges (if I have them) because I want them to safely chamber & fire any ammo of that designation which I come across.

On the other hand, when I chambered my own competition rifles, I NEVER used SAAMI gauges after a couple of years of experimenting. In those rifles, I always cut the chambers using for gauges the very brass I was going to be firing in the rifle. Bought a lot of 300 or 500 rounds of brass for each rifle, depending on projected use. Always kept them separate from the brass for other rifles. Amazing how different some of those chambers were, though all bearing the same cartridge designation. Sure it is more anal, and a lot more work keeping thigs properly sorted. BUT, it produced SIGNIFICANTLY better accuracy!!

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:


When I chamber my hunting rifles, I use SAAMI spec gauges (if I have them) because I want them to safely chamber & fire any ammo of that designation which I come across.

On the other hand, when I chambered my own competition rifles, I NEVER used SAAMI gauges after a couple of years of experimenting. In those rifles, I always cut the chambers using for gauges the very brass I was going to be firing in the rifle.

I hear ya.

I run my favorite sizer die down all the way in my favorite press with my favorite shell holder and make the piece of brass that is my go gauge that I want to just feel the bolt close on.

I have used a factory case or two to set headspace. But I check the case in a Wilson case gauge first to make sure it falls within spec. Die bodies can be long or short and unless you know for sure where the sized piece of brass fits on the scale, you might be setting the headspace too long or too short. Which is fine if you are the only one who will ever use the gun. But if it gets in the hands of someone who isn't keen on loading, there could be issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
I have used a factory case or two to set headspace. Die bodies can be long or short and unless you know for sure where the sized piece of brass fits on the scale, you might be setting the headspace too long or too short. Which is fine if you are the only one who will ever use the gun. But if it gets in the hands of someone who isn't keen on loading, there could be issues.

Yeh, that's WHY I just do it in my own competition rifles. Those never go to anyone else, nor do they ever have a piece of re-sized brass put in them after the initial firing of the lot of brass to be used in each rifle. The chambers are tight enough the brass never needs resizing.

I build those rifles to fit their own particular lots of brass and particular, seated bullets, nothing else.

If for some reason, I ever DO have to resize their brass, I modify their dies to match their chambers' needs.


For hunting rifles and/or other shooters, I use gauges so they can use factory ammo and run of the mine brass.