I am wanting to purchase a lathe and mill in the near future. I was interested in opinions on the size of these two tools, minimum distance between centers and between head and table, etc. I am wanting to learn the rifle building, barreling business and maybe sleeving shotgun barrels.

Shawn Massey
www.masseysfineguns.com

here's my prejudices....
Lathe: Minimum 13" X 40" bed (Jet isn't a bad machine) they run about $3,500 or so.

Mill: Knee type with 49" travel in X axis. Get the full size mill and not the abbreviated ones. They run about $6,000 give or take a bit. (Enco isn't a bad machine and Jet again is fairly good)

I would ask (too many tools ) AKA John Farmer or Jim Kobe .

I would rather pay a confident smith his price rather than invest in the machinery the time and learning curve in which enables one to do their own . I own a milling machine and lathe !.

But that's me .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Shawn,
I think you need a 13x36 that will handle 1.350 through the headstock. It helps to be narrow at the headstock if you chamber in the headstock. Good headstock bearings are critical. It doesn't take much of a lathe for chambering if the above is met.
That being said, I don't have an import lathe and would be very choosie if I were to look at one.
Butch
www.shadetreeea.com

Thanks for the advice so far!

I am the only gunsmith in our area, and have always wanted to learn the barrel work and lathe operation. I had some folks tell me not to get less than 40" centers, so I thought you guy's would know more about it than anyone here in my area.

quote:

Originally posted by Shawn Massey:
Thanks for the advice so far!

I am the only gunsmith in our area, and have always wanted to learn the barrel work and lathe operation. I had some folks tell me not to get less than 40" centers, so I thought you guy's would know more about it than anyone here in my area.

I do a majority of stuff between centers. I have a 13X40 lathe and sometimes it is a stretch working on the breech end of long barrels. 40 inches between centers means 40 inches between a spindle mounted center and the tailstock center. Start subtracting if you are going to use a chuck. But I will say, that that 40 inch lathe is just right for the stuff I do, which is usually everything.

Try to get the heaviest lathe you can afford. Gunsmithing isn't too precise (relatively), almost Any engine lathe will do. Make sure you get a 4 jaw chuck as you will need to dial in off the bore more often than the outer diameter. You will want a good quality live center (one within .0001 tolerance). Look for two taper bearings (on modern machines) or even better two tapers and one ball bearing (for total of three).

If you will be running your barrel through the headstock, look for the ability of adding a spider on the outboard end of the spindle. You will want a minimum of 1.5" ID on the spindle. If you will be turning between centers, make sure the tailstock is beefy and you have a minimum of 40" between centers. Skip the DRO as most of lathe machining is done with the compound which is not measured by the DRO. Use the money for good stop gauges and indicators.

An absolute must is a compound that will swivel 30 deg right and left. Get a sturdy tool holder (Aloris, KDK, etc) You will want to be able to thread english and metric threads without having to change gears.

You will want a back gear range (speed between 80 and 150 RPM) for reaming, 100 or slower is usually used.

I have a 12x36 grizzly geared for gunsmithing. I am getting very good results with this lathe, but I would caution you that it took a lot of work to get acceptable results with this lathe, which is a common complaint among the sub $5k lathes. I would estimate taht I spent roughly two months of work (part time) to get it to finish properly. I am currently looking towards a 16x40 for the non gunsmithing work.

Used American machines can be a good buy, just make sure you have a knowledgable machinist available to check it out (or better yet, a millwright).

I could ramble on, but these are the things that stand out.

John

I have a Grizzly 12 X 36 and have had no problems with it other than the China motors are junk got three before one worked more that an hour. The lathe cuts within a .0005 and I can't work any closer than that, just had to line the tail stock up and every thing was good to go. I do know the quality varies from company to company and lathe to lathe. I would like a longer bed but with the large spindle in the headstock it works out ok.

I recently purchased an 11 x 37 Rockwell lathe at auction. It came with a taper attachment, collet closer, tool post grinder, KDK tool post and about a dozen tool holders (just to name a few of the extras). It has a wide "flame hardened" bed, narrow headstock and 1.380" through spindle. Spindle speed runs between 45 - 1550 rpm. It has two tapered roller bearings at the spindle and a L-00 tapered nose drive. Pretty much a good ol' American machine that can handle most barrels without taking up a lot of workspace.

I don't think you'll need to spend $$$ in order to find a nice used lathe with tooling and other extras. Just be patient and keep looking. I found that there was a BIG step-up when going above 1.380" through spindle. What you gain in through-hole size you give up in a longer headstock. Just depends on what you want to do with your lathe.

-- Brian

I have a grizzley 9036, its a 13 x 40 machine. It was the largest I could afford at the time.
I have no trouble holding .0005" right off the tool when I do my part.

My only serious compalint is this model doesn't have a factory available taper attachment so I'll have to make my own. Other than that its been a super machine.

Get 49" mill. I have a short bed and while it works for 90% of everything I do, there are a couple of jobs that its just not enough machine.

quote:

Originally posted by aleaddict:
I recently purchased an 11 x 37 Rockwell lathe at auction. It came with a taper attachment, collet closer, tool post grinder, KDK tool post and about a dozen tool holders (just to name a few of the extras). It has a wide "flame hardened" bed, narrow headstock and 1.380" through spindle. Spindle speed runs between 45 - 1550 rpm. It has two tapered roller bearings at the spindle and a L-00 tapered nose drive. Pretty much a good ol' American machine that can handle most barrels without taking up a lot of workspace.

I don't think you'll need to spend $$$ in order to find a nice used lathe with tooling and other extras. Just be patient and keep looking. I found that there was a BIG step-up when going above 1.380" through spindle. What you gain in through-hole size you give up in a longer headstock. Just depends on what you want to do with your lathe.

-- Brian

Biggest complaint I have about older american iron is that the headstocks are genereally too long to use with a barrel shorter than 24". Well, less than 24" is about the bulk of my work.

Thanks for all the advice!

My plan is to be patient and find a good used one, but I have a problem being patient when it come to wanting a new toy!

The price of a new Grizzly is appealing!

Shawn

quote:

Biggest complaint I have about older american iron is that the headstocks are genereally too long to use with a barrel shorter than 24". Well, less than 24" is about the bulk of my work.

My headstock is only 16" plus another 1" for the collet nose. It's a very tight little package.

My only concern about buying "seasoned" American iron is the lack of available replacement parts. That said, the quality and workmanship of these old machines far exceeds anything you'll find out of China.

My Rockwell lathe

-- Brian

I have spotted a South Bend CL 187 R , is this something I could use? I think the R indicates a 54" bed, which might be to long?

I just got one of these http://www.okuma.com/products/machines/lathes/heritage_series/esl10/

Been very happy with it so far, but probably not what you had in mind. I have contoured and chambered several thousand barrels on a Grizzly G1031 which is a 13x40 lathe and it has been a good machine. I suspect that there new gunsmithing lathe is a much better machine.

John

quote:

I have spotted a South Bend CL 187 R , is this something I could use? I think the R indicates a 54" bed, which might be to long?

That is a regular Heavy 10 with a 4-1/2 foot bed, which is too short. You need a 5 foot (60") bed. Take a look at http://www.practicalmachinist.com for information on SB lathes.

You also want to find one with lots of tools.