I agree that being a low volume customer has it's draw backs I also agree it's a far cry to see a company go out of their way to take care of a low volume customer. It's a trait that is in short supply these days. Lapping a second time, if done properly will not remove enough material to matter. It's takes quite a bit of lapping to removing .0005" in a 24"+ bore I personally would not worry about it possibly being lapped twice even though it seems it was never lapped once in the first place.

As for you waisted time trying to get the barrel to shoot properly.... Well If I was Shilen I would apologize for you trouble but there is no way I could compensate you for something that is out of my control. How do I know the barrel was properly threaded, chambered, & installed? Let alone the quality of the ammo used or the shooter behind the rifle. I'm not questioning you skill but there is more to an MOA rifle then just the barrel. They know it, you know it, and we know it. So count it as lessons learned and hopefully they correct the problem

That barrel is totally unacceptable with those marks. If you paid by credit card can you not contact you card provider and make a clawback on the money?

I hope you are capable of giving a good honest evaluation after you receive it and shoot it.
Butch

It would be interesting to hear Shilen's side of this story.

Might be like one of the late great Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story"

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
It would be interesting to hear Shilen's side of this story.

Might be like one of the late great Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story"

That's entirely possible

Every shilen chrom moly bbl I have ever recieved looked like this one. I dont have one that stands out as a bad shooter they all shot reasonable even some that shoot sub 1/2moa (heavy bbl 375 ultra) I to noticed the marks in the bbl and called shilen, I talked to the head guy who ever that was at the time i didnt ask his name. He told me they were all like that and they only lap the stainless bbls and chrom moly they install, then he said there cutters are designed to cut a certain way not to require lapping, doesnt make a lot of sense if they lap the chrom moly they install, but again I never had one that shot so far out that I ever questioned. Look at H-S precision bbls they are 10x cut bbl but if you look at them through a bore scope they look worse than this bbl doesnt make them bad shooters I dont think they are the best but they shoot pretty good. You can even call hs and they will tell you not to look down there bbl because it will scare you.

Iam more interested in the crown on this bbl what kind of crown is that it looks like the bbl was just cut by shilen then polished, You have to cut at least an inch off of the bbl to avoid wallowed out rifleing from the centers and other stock holders they push in. The rifleing in the pic looks ok at the muzzle but you cant eyeball you have to just cut 1" sometimes 2" on shilen

I find it hard to believe the bbl alone unless something done radicaly wrong can shoot like a shotgun pattern. Also why are we testing a bbl at 300yds? how did it perform at 100yds? what were the velocities? ES, SD's. with out any of this info and 100yd performance there is no telling if it is the bbl, shooter, scope, rifle or all of the above compounding. What caliber? load? rifle set up? what bbl contour?

If you want low cost chrom moly or stainless and want them lapped order a Mcgowen 3 weeks turn around.

I am not sure what you are saying, implying or what. I bought a $30.00 30-06 barrel, pre threaded and chambered from Numrich about 15 years ago. It was definitely the taper that Shilen used in those days, very different from Douglas, and Numrich told me it was a 2d from Shilen when I inquired. I was not complaining when I inquired, I was thilled with it and wanted another.

The reason I asked the OP about the source of the barrel was because his cryptic wording earlier in the post sounded a lot like the ad when I bought that barrel 15 years ago; it stated these barrels were made by a major US barrel maker or words to those effects.

I saw 2d's advertised about 2 years ago as well at Numrich, and I want to say they were advertised as Shilen, I am not positive but pretty sure. At any rate the maker was actually named in that flyer.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Where did you get you info Airgun? There is probably another side of this story. I am not saying he didn't get a barrel that was unacceptable, but it could have been a little different than told. Not trying to box your chops as my wife does to our Grandsons, but sometimes our presentation of a problem may cause the other person to raise their hackles.
I have been involved with Shilen for many years and this is just not their policy.
Butch

I have never recieved a barrel that looked like that from Shelin. The last chrome molly barrel I bought did go through a bore scope I use at work, it was as nice on the inside as anyone could ask for. Running a patch down the barrel is slick and effortless. I've bought direct and from the retailers. I have had no problems with talking with anyone there. I hope your problem is fixed and there's not a problem going on within the company.

Funny, I just sent one back to another barrel maker today... Douglas not Shilen. Mine came in yesterday and when I opened it I noticed that it did not have their XX stamp indicating a premium barrel. This morning I called and said they must have shipped a standard barrel instead of the premium. "How do you know it's not a premium?" "Because it's not stamped" "Well Hon, if you ship that barrel back I'll just stamp it and send it right back to you" Guess the difference in cost between a standard and premium is for the stamp.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I hope you are capable of giving a good honest evaluation after you receive it and shoot it.
Butch

Don't worry if i'm capable??

My opinion of shilen remains the same regardless if the barrel can shoot 1/2 MOA or less. As stated before i have another one of their SS barrels in 223rem(savage prefit) they make a great barrel.

i wish they just owned up to what realy happened to the barrel before they sent it to me and after i sent it back to them for repair.

Every barrel they send out should be inspected properly before being sent out to the customer. that's their job. if for some strange reason a barrel that has not been lapped gets sent out they should just own up and replace it. i don't know, sounds pretty simple to me.

quote:

Originally posted by crout:
I just felt a bit burned when the owner of shilen couldn't even say a mistake had been made.

In today's liability conscious world no gun barrel maker in his right mind would "admit" a mistake. Your insistence that he do so (which is what it sounds like) doubtless set off all kinds of alarms. He has no way of knowing what happened on the other end that he's not being told about. All he can reasonably do is fix everything and admit nothing.

quote:

I have been involved with Shilen for many years and this is just not their policy.

The picture combined with an unhappy customer says it is.

In the future when you are trying to photograph a the muzzle bore, insert a cleaning patch from the breech but stop an inch or inch and a quarter from the crown.

The white patch makes the bore much more visible.

That being said on my Hart 7mm barrel it is mirror smooth.
So smooth infact that I can see the weave of the fabric
in a secondary reflection (reflecting off two opposite sides of the barrel bfore the image reaches my eye).

Then again I have an unfired hammer forged Remington factory barrel that is also that smooth.

If I paid good money for a premium barrel that looked like that I would shout the name of the maker to the heavens
loudly enough that the almighty would smite them (or me)just to shut me up.

AD

crout,
What is the word on your barrel? Have you not received it? We have all been waiting to hear from you.
Butch

This situation on the barrel caught my attention quickly for I only live some 10 or so miles from Douglas, visit with them from time to time and in fact going to a match w/ owner and fellow shooter this month, and was confused when I read something about lapping barrels. Douglas does not lap nor will they do so. I am not condeming those who do lap, but as a policy Douglas does not do it.
Several years ago bought a Shilen Select Match barrel to go on an Across The Course gun, 308, and the 'smith at that time when hearing that I was sending him a Shilen warned me that he hoped I had bought the Select Match vs the std. Match grade. I had no problems with the barrel and evnetually shot it out and moved on. Shilen's site makes note that there is a distinct difference between the two grades of barrels I believe.
Question I have is how would you produce the results in the bore shown using a button system of rifling?? Could it result from using lesser grade of barrel steel?? It appears to be the result of "stop and go..." w/ the button?? I am certainly no barrel maker and curious how this was done.
I have looked through the bore scope device on most Douglas barrels I have had done and not seen anything quite like this.

Does any barrel maker have a written guarentee as to how smooth their barrels will be and what will happen if one isn't as smooth as it is supposed to be?

I truly belive that it has become common for some American rifle/gun part companys send thier crap up to Canada to get rid of it. The cost and effort to send it back is usualy not worth it for the end Canadain consumer due to all the import/export hoops that need to be jumped through. Seems the American company vewpoint is that once the item crosses the border its gone for good and can be forgotten. I am not saying this the case here at all but it is somthing one must be aware of in Canada. When I buy I new gun here I give it a full inspection just as if I were buyng a used rifle. Once you have a turd, you are pretty much stuck with it, unless the retailer helps you out and don't count on it.

quote:

What is the word on your barrel? Have you not received it? We have all been waiting to hear from you.
Butch

X2

I have had a couple of shilen chrome moly barrels with the chatter marks, both #3 contour.