What is it with the Krieger barrel? As an example - on their data page on the web - confirmed by phone - they show the minimum contour of #5 for a .308 stainless barrel. The CM barrel cn be purchased in a smaller contour.

They say the reason they make the #5 minimum is because of concern for the barrel giving way to pressure - (blowing up?) The CM steel is different somehow.

I don't understand this. Other mfg will make their stainless in much smaller contours, and I haven't heard or experienced problems such as the barrel just blowing up.

Perhaps some of you more knowledgable gentlemen can explain this in a way that I can understand.

Thanks,
KB

KB
There has been some information that thin Stainless steel barrels have burst in low temperatures.

OK,
Yet it seems that different barrel makers have different definitions of "thin"?

I'm asking is there a reason Krieger should be more concerned than other barrel makers, and why?

You'll get the most accurate answer by giving them a call. They're more than willing to talk in detail about their thoughts on the matter.

I did call them, and their answer was that the minimum barrel contour for a stainless barrel in 30 caliber (for example) is #5 because of their concern for barrel failure - blow up or splitting - due to the characteristics of the stainless steel. They are not concerned of the same with their CM barrels, so the minimum contour is smaller for CM.

They have their reasons, but these reasons do not mesh with other barrel makers, and I don't know why, as Krieger can't speak for others, and I don't have the time to call them all.

I know little about metalurgy, that's why this question is on the gunsmith forum - where someone does know something about metalurgy - hopefully.

KB

Some stainless barrels have failed due to sulphur occlusions in the metal. I think this problem has been largely overcome with different grades of stainless. I THINK this problem has occured in some 416 stainless that was/is very popular for barrel metal.

If you will do a little searching on this and the other shooting forums you should find some threads about some stainless barrels failing in the not too distant past. I don't know if anybody has ever isolated the cause but if you were a businessman with your entire life and fortune tied up in your business you would probably take the same approach as John Kreiger. His barrels are still among the best. If you choose to take your business elsewhere I'm sure he would be the first to agree that you should. JMHO

Ray

416 Stainless has a lower yield strength than chrome-moly steel at temperatures near 0 F. Krieger is ultra conservative about this.

I think my question has been answered. Now I understand. Thanks. If anyone has other comments - go ahead.

Sooo, in the future, if the temp is near zero, then I'll take my light varmint #6 Shilen barrel in 308 W, and leave the thiner barreled rifles home, just in case Mr. Shilen, Mr. Lilja, or Chris at PacNor aren't as concerned about my safety or as conscientious as apparantly Mr. Krieger is.

These are good things to know, and should be common knowledge, especially for those who buy the multitude of standard sporter stainless barrels made by the various mfgs, such as Remington, used-to-be Winchester, Howa, Ruger, Montana, etc, including the European rifles too.

If I'm not mistaken, I think Weatherby offers Krieger barrels as an upgrade from their custom shop - in stainless - in smaller contours than #5. I think these barrels are not the cut rifling version, but the button rifled Krieger barrels. Reconcile that !!! I am appaled at such rampant irresponsibility in protecting me from myself.

KB

Hello,
I think the differences in supply of stain-less steel blanks was the concerned of Krieger.
John

quote:

I am appaled at such rampant irresponsibility in protecting me from myself.

KB

I think John Krieger is equally interested in protecting his investment in Krieger. There's nothing to prevent a buyer from turning the SS barrel to any contour he desires. Krieger has sufficiently coverered their backside with their policy.

I'm pretty sure you can get a stainless .30 barrel in a #4 and perhaps a #3 from Krieger, but not in 416.. They supply those smaller contours in 410 stainless.. Call them to make sure. I know they do or did a #4 .30 in 410 ss, I had one.

But look at the positive side, some barrel makers (Hart springs to mind) seem to have stopped offering CM barrels all together. Krieger still offers CM barrels in all contours, and that is good if you are looking to blue the steel...

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

I am appaled at such rampant irresponsibility in protecting me from myself.

KB

I think John Krieger is equally interested in protecting his investment in Krieger. There's nothing to prevent a buyer from turning the SS barrel to any contour he desires. Krieger has sufficiently coverered their backside with their policy.

Of course it's reasonable for a business man to protect his investment. It's difficult to know for sure whether Mr. Krieger has covered his backside - that probably depends on a lawyer somewhere, and the right or wrong circumstance. I'm sure there is a hunter somewhere in Alaska with a Krieger #5 barrel, and the temp is -20. Perhaps a #6 should be minimum at 20 below.

I was joking about Mr. Krieger being concerned about protecting me from myself - in case that isn't apparent. It was a backward way of saying that if he is concerned about protecting anyone, almost certainly it is himself and his business. I'm just questioning why is his concern so unusual in the industry?

He certainly made what seems an unusual decision in the industry, for reasons we can speculate all day about. It just makes me wonder if he knows something about the steel he is using that we don't know, or if the scratch rifling method is the root of his concern, or if his steel supply is inferior to the rest of the industry?

You see, I can speculate too, but it doesn't answer the questions.

Probably (speculation) the answer is ultra conservatism. Perhaps we will never know for sure, but it is what it is - #5 contour minimum in a stainless 30 caliber barrel from Krieger.

KB

Kreiger stopped taking orders for 410 Stainless Steel barrels as of January 1, 2007. I asked Kreiger about the reasoning behind this and was told that the 410 Stainless was enough harder on tooling and difficult enough to accurately bore and rifle that they were tired of the hassel.

Dave

That's good to know, so it appears that Pat B is correct, which somehow probably means that Mr. Krieger had more confidence in the strength of 410 compared to 416 steel, and likewise he obviously has more confidence in the CM steel.

KB

John Kreiger is a fine person and great barrel maker. I used his #2 contours in 410 stainless on a 24 inch 300WSM on a MRC 1999 action. This was put in a Mcmillian Supergrade stock. It is light and shoots sub 1/2 MOA.

I understand Kreiger is discontinuing the use of 410 SS barrels. This is to bad as they are very nice.
Longshot

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
I am appaled at such rampant irresponsibility in protecting me from myself.

KB

You can purchase the #5 and recontour it yourself. That would solve your dilema. Of course you would have to assume the responsibility for your actions.

Mr. Malm, of Lock Stock and Barrel, I'm thinking maybe you are a gunsmith, or perhaps you have a lathe? Would you turn the barrel for me?

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Mr. Malm, of Lock Stock and Barrel, I'm thinking maybe you are a gunsmith, or perhaps you have a lathe? Would you turn the barrel for me?

KB

Save your money and purchase a stainless barrel from Shilen, or, some other top barrel maker in the contour you desire, and then find someone really good to install it. You won't notice a difference in the performance between it and a Krieger, and you can put that extra money towards getting the action straight.

Much of this was discussed after the failures of Tikka/Sako barrels. 416 is the free machining grade of 410 and is free machining due to higher sulphur content .The sulphur formes sulphides which act as chip breakers when machining .Crucibles version of 416 they claim is good to -40 F.410 has been used and IIRC 17-4 PH stainless also.The failed Tikka barrels were said to be a bad batch of steel but it was never said how it was 'bad'.

quote:

Originally posted by malm:
Save your money and purchase a stainless barrel from Shilen, or, some other top barrel maker in the contour you desire,

Exactly. You catch on quick - and apparantly can see where I was going with my thoughts and next questions.

Naturally, I was wondering if you had good libility insurance.

Regards,
KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:
Naturally, I was wondering if you had good libility insurance.

Regards,
KB

Why, are you tired of working for a living?

Naah, but actually I would like to work at something different for a living.

I don't think I would want to make a living from ins claims from a blown up barrel.

I'm just messing with you - hopefully all in fun.



KB

quote:

Originally posted by Kabluewy:

I don't think I would want to make a living from ins claims from a blown up barrel.

If there were a BIG problem with stainless gun barrels blowing up from being cold, Ruger would make you sign a release before you could purchase anything from them...

It may have something to do with global warming, and science...and I don't think John Krieger wants to wait until 2610 for vindication.
He's a great guy and I'm sure has your's, and his best interests in mind.

Very simple and easy solution. If you don't agree with or care for a certain companies policies then take your business elsewhere.

John Kreiger has been making top quality barrels for a very long time and I am sure that he has very good reasons for adopting his policies, and whether or not they are accepted by everyone else out there is irrelevant.

Hello,
If you want the finest barrel currently available on planet Earth, buy a Krieger. Used all over the globe in all manner of shooting and has the highest respect from all types of shooters, be they civilian or LE/military. Not all, but damn near all experienced long range shooters all over the world will use Krieger barrels. Other good barrels on the market, but Krieger just simply the best and has a very strong track record to justify that claim. Speaking from some 40 plus years of "serious" and match shooting experience. Yes, you could say I am a very big fan of Krieger barrels.