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Winchester model 70 (1965) firing pin problem ?
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I have a Sears and Roebuck push feed (made by Winchester), There seems to be a problem with the firing pin. When a round is loaded it is fine, but with the saftey off if the bolt handle moves a bit in the upward position as if you were going to extract a round the firing pin slides foward but does not detonate the roung and the trigger is very hard to pull and the bolt is very hard to extract the round. The same thing occurs if there isn't a round in the gun. If the saftey is in either of the safe positions this doesn't occur. I took the gun apart and tried this and I do not see the sear mechenism move when the bolt handle is slightly raised, but the firing pin slides foward. Can it be the sear spring or is it the bolt itself or just a trigger adjustment. The trigger has never been adjusted and I would assume it goes at @ 6 lbs. (I don't have a trigger scale). Anyone with any insight into this problem please reply it would be greatly appreciated
 
Posts: 156 | Location: NY | Registered: 30 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I had this problem with a Mod 70 after I installed a Tubb speedlock pin. The firing pin and striker are overriding the sear, which then is jammed down hard into the trigger notch. Too much up and down slop in the bolt gives not enough sear engagement, and you have to find a way to either make the sear go higher(maybe a new trigger), or shim the bolt to tighten up the play in the top of the rear receiver bridge. An aftermarket trigger is the easiest way to go. This could be DANGEROUS, so fix it now!
 
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It's a little hard to completely diagnose over the internet for sure, but you have a problem with the relationship between the cocking piece and the sear.

The reason you don't see the phenomenon occuring when you have it on safe, in either position, is simply because the safety blocks the firing pin from movement, rather than just blocking the trigger on rifles like the Remington 700 or Savage 110.

There are a couple of reasons why this problem would be occuring and these would be the most common:

The slot that is cut in the bolt shroud that allows the cocking piece to slide back in forth maybe too wide, or the flat section of the cocking piece that slide through the bolt shroud is too narrow. In either case, it's allowing the the sear and cocking piece to loose their contact enough to allow the firing pin to jump when the bolt is lifted.

The other item that could cause this is the sleave lock, which locks the bolt shroud into position when you open the bolt. If the notch that it resides in is allowing too much movement in a radial manner, it will allow the cocking piece to shift off of the sear and cause the problem.

The next item, which happens to be the hardest to correct, are the flats that are cut on the bolt shroud that allow it to slide on receiver and up to the rear receiver bridge. If these flats are cut in such a manner that the distance from the center of the shroud to the flat is too thin, it will allow the shroud to have excessive slop as well and cause the problem.

What's worse is that a combination of all these things in lesser degrees can tolerance stack on you and cause the problem as well. Any of these issue to a certain degree do not cause the problem your incurring, but put them all together and they add up quick.

Since you're having a problem extracting the round, this could also be attributed to excessive sear engagement on the cocking piece, providing that the headspace is within safe limits and you're using factory rounds that are not indicating excessive pressure in your rifle.

To make this diagnosis accurate, I would highly reccomend that you take your rifle to a qualified gunsmith who knows the model 70 design very well. I would not reccomend putting an aftermarket trigger on this rifle at this time, simply because there are more factors going on here than simply a trigger change. On top of that, I've yet to see a Model 70 trigger I couldn't make work and work better than the factory every dreamed. When they are setup properly, there are no finer hunting triggers to be had.

One last note........DO NOT FIRE THIS RIFLE ANYMORE......At least not until you have it looked over and corrected by a gunsmith. You're flirting with disaster right now, and only dummy rounds should be put into it until this problem is corrected.

You could print out this info I've given you to arm yourself so to speak with the information to pass onto the gunsmith to determine whether you're taking it to the right guy or not.

As I've found over the years, there are many who think they know how the trigger works on a model 70, but very few have got it truely figured out. Since I've manufactured every component I've spoke of and reworked a ton of them over the years, I have a better than average handle on the situaton.


Williams Machine Works

 
Posts: 1021 | Location: Prineville, OR 97754 | Registered: 14 July 2002Reply With Quote
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