Picked up my $245 1952 featherwieght yesterday. Looks like it hasnt been shot that much. Bolt face is like new.

Dirty like it had not been wiped down in 20 years. A couple spots of serface rust that came off with kroil and brass brush. Bore looks like might be a small bit of rust in the middle of the bore . Its soaking in kroil then Ill scrub it . Blue is excelent ,aluminun butt plate is still black with the aluminum color edge. Floorplate is still blued color , not worn through.



Its a 308 and the mag box has a spacer, longer ejector and the bolt has a piece on the extractor collar opposite side of the extracter that rides on the reciever rail and hits the bolt stop so its a short cycle and the bolt doesnt pull back as far.



Question is, Is this bolt piece(rib/stop) that is attached to the collar "only" on short cartrige pre64 rifles? My 1948 m70 3006 doesnt have it. obveously cause its a 06.



Seems like this bolt "piece" might help the bolt guide/slide smoother on the reciever rails too.



Also what is the first year the featherwieght was made?



This is my first pre 64 featherwieght. NOW,,, THIS IS A COOL RIFLE !!!

All pre 64 actions are 375 length capable, with spacers and changes to convert them to whatever cartridges they were produced in...

Sorry Ray:

All pre-64 actions are not 375 length. They are '06 length. They are shortened with mag spacers and the parts the the gentleman refered to for the short cartridges (308 based cartridges and 7x57 family and Swift, 35 Rem, 250 Savage, etc).

The 300 and 375 H&H actions were opened up and used extended magazines.

While you are correct that the actions are 'capable' of 375 length cartridges, it's not a simple matter to just change the magazine box and the barrel. Quite a bit more to it than that.

Scrollcutter,
Ray is correct. The actions are the same length. The ejection port was opened up for the 375 as well as a magazine without the filler, shorter bolt stop and ejector to get the cartridge back further.
Headache

If the ejection port and the front receiver are machined out for the 375, then Ray isn't correct. It's a 30-06 length action that can be opened up to accommodate the longer cartridge.



The new Model 70's are a 375 length action that is capable to chamber shorter cartridges though shorter magazine boxes, etc.



Not to be argumentative, though.



You are correct that all of the pre-64 actions are the same length.

the Featherweight was first offered in 1952...in 308 Win. Sounds like you have one of the first!!

Now hold on here, you can't have it both ways! The new model 70's are also machined to open the loading/ejection port for 375 length cartridges. Are they not?

Chuck

Scrollcutter,
Not being argumentative also, but by industry standard, the action length or size is the envelope or exterior dimensions of the receiver. The ejection ports and feed lips may be different for the various cartridge families.
Have a great day,
Headache

Chuck:



The entire action is longer than the pre-64. It is built to accomodate the 375.



Headache: Again, the pre-64 action is built on the '06 action length. To accomodate the 375 requires a conversion. The same with a standard Mauser 98. Most were built for the 8 mm Mauser. Because the action can be converted to fire the 375 or 404 doesn't make it a 375 action. The magnum Mauser is a 375 or bigger action. The short action model 700 could be made to fire the '06, but it's not an '06 action. It may be a subtle distinction, but a distinction non the less. And a real one at that.

The new model 70's are built in 3 action lengths. 1 for the new WSSM's, a Short action for the 308 length, and then a long action for 30-06 through 375. The difference in the new 30-06 vs 375 is that the rear of the receiver is shortened. Here from top to bottom is a 300 Weatherby, 270 Winchester, and a 300 WSM. Sorry but I don't have a WSSM length yet. Note how the Weatherby is the same OAL as the 270 but the rear reciever bridge is narrower.....

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=131735&c=500&z=1"][/url]


Good fun, good shooting......DJ

Yea, I know what you're getting at. I'm being a bit of a devils advocate here. I also could see no reason why the loading port couldn't be standardized at 3.4" (I believe). Accomodating the 30-06 through the 375's.

Chuck

Yea, I know what you guys are talking about, and I should probably retract my statement to Ray. He is right that the pre-64 is 375 "capable". When I first read what he said, I read it that the original M70 was a 375 length action.

There are three different sizes of bolt stop extensions.

One is for the 22 Hornet, one for the 250-3000 and 35 Remington and the last one is for the 220 Swift, 257 Roberts and the 308 family.

The standard extractor collar is for the '06 family and the H&H family of cartridges and the short magnums.

Scrollcutter is absolutely right on all his explanations of the pre-64 model 70. You can change from one caliber to another merely by changing parts until you get to the 300 H&H and the 375 H&H. These two calibers require the feed ramp to be milled out and a new magazine box and follower installed. I am not next to my "Rifleman's Rifle" book right now so I can't say for sure how much more needs changing, but I know it is at least this much.



I have converted a few actions from the 243-308 size to the regular 30-06 size and everything works fine if all the parts are changed. I have even been known to be extra devious and fill the hole in the bolt knob with weld and reshape the tang like the pre-wars and transition models were. The results make nice looking rifles to me.

GPS7: I can't find anything in my references regarding the serial # of the 1st Featherweight. The serial #'s in 1952 were from 206,626 through 238,820. So that should tell you whether your rifle was made early or late in the year.

In '52 only the 308 was offered in the Featherweight. The 243, 358, 270 and 30/06 were introduced in the Featherweight in '55.

The bolt stop extension on the extractor ring was added to all short action calibers (308, 243, 257, etc) to limit the rearward movement of the bolt for short action cartridges.

To end this definition of the pre-64 modle 70, the action is the same size overall for all cartridges from 22 HORNET to the 375 H&H size. That the action was first manufactured to accomodate the 30-06 cartridge does not make it any more or less than the universal receiver that it is. Those that invented the 375 H&H first used a base action, Like Paul Mauser did and opened things and trimmed things and adjusted things until all aspects of the case worked. Most of the long cased Holland rounds were made on standard actions which were reworked to accomodate the bigger case.A few best grade rifles were made on the oversized mauser action purchased from Rigby.

Maybe I'm beating my head against the wall and maybe I'm incorrect. But, you guys will not convince me that the M70 in the pre-64 configuration is anything but an '06 based action. Even if the factory provided it in the H&H chamberings, it was still a conversion. Is the Springfield a 375 action. I think most people would agree that it's an '06 action as well.



Would you consider the M70 a 416 Rigby action. They have been converted to that chamber that cartridge also.

The magazine inside dimension on my Pre 64 M70 that was origionally a 270 measures 3.400". Try stuffing a 375 H&H in that one. As Ray stated the pre64 actions are the same length. On the outside only. The magazine cutout and the e-port are very different on a 375. So is the bolt stop and ejector. I don't think you could open the magazine on an 06 action much farther forward. You would be cutting through the vertical wall behind the front gard screw that is used to hold the front of the mag box in place. The forgings were probably the same but when it came time to machine them the "pad" behind the back of the recoil lug is much shorter on a 375 action. I doubt you could put a 375 action in an 06 inlet without removing a large chunk of wood.

gunmaker
http://users.elknet.net/chico

Olarmy , This one is 279xxx. I looked it up in the book at the gun shop and I think I got the serial numbers you posted, making it a 1953 . The Collector arms web site where you type in the number says 1952.

Thanks for the other Imfo on calibers introduced in 1955.

Rick

GSP7: FWIW: The Rifleman's Rifle , by Roger Rule, lists 1953 M70 production to include serial numbers 238,821-282,915.

The book also says that the factory list price in 1953 was $120.95!

Enjoy your rifle!

From the pre-64 bible; "The Rifleman's Rifle by Roger Rule", page 102.

"The receiver for the H&H magnum cartridges DIFFERED from the standard by having a magazine length of 3.63 inches. Corresponding to this increased length, the ejecting port had two small cut-outs, one at each end, which measured overall 3.669 inches through centers. A special note: Stocks for these receivers were also different; their magazine well was inletted an additional � inch in length to match the magazine opening."
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This would most likely point to the fact that all receivers started life out as the 30-06 or standard length as Scrollcutter has said, and some were then further machined to accept H&H parts. The 30-06 was known as the group V cartridge group in the model 70. The H&H rounds were known as the group VII cartridge group and used a longer magazine box for the corresponding magazine well as well as a different follower. They also used a different extractor. According to Rule the ejector was the same as the group V rounds.

I will agree that all pre-64 model 70 actions have the same guard screw spacing, thus use the same floorplate and triggerguard making them look like they are all alike. However you cannot change from a standard cartridge length to the H&H length by merely switching parts as you can from the standard length to the shorter rounds, of from the shorter rounds to the standard length rounds. It would also not work to try and make an H&H action into a 308 Winchester even if you found a bolt with the standard bolt face. The 308 magazine box, as also a 30-06 length box, would be to short to fit in the magazine well of an H&H action. You could however do this with an action that started life as a 30-06 if you round up all the correct factory parts. I further agree that a standard length can be made into an H&H length but it will also entail machine work as well as rounding up the appropriate parts. Because of the machine work neccesary to make it an H&H action I would also consider the pre-64 as basically a 30-06 length action.

My experience with pre64 375 m70 actions is limited to only shooting one once. When I worked for Dakota I stocked hundereds of 06, short mag and 375 length Dakota 76 actions (same overal length). I'm sure they won't fit in the same inlet even without the magazine. I could be wrong here, but I belive Pete Grisel copied an origional 375 length action to make the Dakota 375 magazine. I know you can't open a Dakota from 06 to 375. I did just measure the flat behind the recoil lug on my pre64 06length mag equipped action and it is around 1.200". If anyone here has an origional 375 maybe they could measure their flat. I'm assuming it's shorter by around .180". I think this is why the origional 06 action can not be opened into a "real" copy of a 375 action because there would be nothing supporting the front of the magazine box. Under recoil this would be a big problem. The web in front of my 06 box is only .105" thick and you need to remove more material than that to fit a 375 magazine box. Again I could be wrong here, but I believe that is why the real 375 pre64 action is worth MUCH more than the 06 action.

gunmaker
http://users.elknet.net/chico