That's an interesting concept.



I am a Ruger fan because they shoot.

I post the targets to prove it, at my web page .

Wihout being disrespectful, I've personally owned a LOT more than any 14 or 15 Ruger 77s.

I've owned and operated a gun shop in the '80s and can tell you that Ruger is not the manufacturer that we had the most returns of, not even close.



You post an opinion on 14 or 15 rifles, that you didn't even own.



And, because you can't get them to shoot accurately,



You're subjective, and,



I'm called biased and uninformed.



Now that's some interesting logic!



It might be of interest to you that my .243, and .270 are box stock. My 308 and 30-06 have been bedded. I have used Timney triggers on some and reworked some of the factory triggers. I never put much work into any rifles trigger until I see how it shoots and how I like it. Other than that work, which is needed on a lot of factory guns, that's all I've done.

If you've had bad luck with Ruger I'm sorry for that. And, I agree that Ruger makes a lemon now and then, just like any other manufacturer. But to pretend that Ruger is, as a matter of course, putting out inferior rifles is just not true. If you go into any well stocked gun shop, you'll likely see a lot of Ruger 77s on the new rack, and very few on the used rack. There's a good reason for that, they sell well and they shoot well. How else do you suppose Ruger got to be the largest gun manufacturer in the US. I'll give you a clue, it ain't 'cause their guns don't shoot.



One thing to remember is that for every post about Ruger troubles, there are literally hundreds and hundreds that don't post at all because they have no problems. You're only hearing the bad news not all the news.



Does it not tell you something that I CAN get them to shoot well? I mean isn't that a give away that it's at least possible? Come on, now, give me a break.

I have heard for a good source that certain Ruger barrels are oversize. You could slug your barrell to verify but a
lot of Rugers seem to shoot better when barrel has a number of fouling shots. Dont clean yours and see if accuracy improves.

Snider - PARAGRAPH please?



If you are paying 500 for a Ruger Blue and wood you are getting ripped. Try 419-467 if you look a bit. And do not forget the free rings.

i understand your feelings but biased ones. my statements were not concepts. concepts are something new and being trialed against the whole. im a remington fan and if i would have argued based on my remingtons then i would be doing so on a biased nature and unfair to many other rifles. im sorry if my words were pointed and zealous in nature. the 14 guns ive worked with took much more work beyond the basics. the owners at the club did not desire to go further. they shoot only in the fall and during the hunting season. i shoot all year around and reload but no expert. they are okay with 1.5 to 2" groups but not for me. i could have spent the time to getem to shoot but thats not what they wanted and thats perfectly fine. you obviously have done your homework with yours and i understand your pride. the barrels on their hunting rifles were rough and took alot more break in time than the other guns around there. the floor plates and bottom screws were a pain in the neck. in comparison to my 30-06 and 270 howas against the rugers right out of the box there is no comparison. the howas have sloppy bolts and even worse triggers but they'll embarass your 100 yard groups and erase those 200 yard examples all day long as well as the guys at the club. if they were here they'd tell you the same thing and they own the darn rugers. the howas have had nothing done to them as well as your examples. again the howas way better than those you posted. 389.00 beats rugers 500.00 all day long. there are many other guns at the club im leaving out. the sakos,sigs and savages are awesome shooters too. couple of browning a-bolts are great too. you better be prepared to be right against any of those on a given day. you got some good groups there but based on your statements and im guessing you lean hard to the rugers but still biased as iam with remingtons. my argument would be biased if i just said remingtons as the commercial goes out of the box etc. outshoots all others which is nothing more than marketing even though thats been my experience the last 25 years but not others. my 280 remington and sig 280 has 7 different loads that will shoot .4" to .25" groups at 100 yards. no ruger except the customs will touch them. most of the rugers ive loaded for worked with usually 1 maybe 2 combos. there is a heavy barreled 25-06 ruger that does some impressive work but the 25-06 sig and remington just leaves it behind. .75" groups to .23" and .35" respectfully. your argument about the shelves in the gun store could be argued differently. they may be well stocked because they are collecting dust verses moving to customers as other brands do. yes they do sell alot of guns but the pistols probably carry that along with the 10/22's. just as with the bigger bores the rim fires shoot sub par too due to poor barrels. look at who makes the barrels on rugers and the marlins in the same calibers of rimfires and the marlins hands down have a better shooting gun and its way, way cheaper. shilen barrel verse ruger barrels. again sorry for being too touchy and zealous. just what ive seen and experienced and not based on my ability to getem to shoot or whether ive owned a gun store. i don't have to work hard to get the others to shoot in comparison to a ruger and thats all that needs to be said. now if theres a secret formula you have that relates to the rugers then share it with the group and i can learn something new and help my buddies at the club. they would appreciate it and make the shooting more eventful around the place. seems to me its more based on what the rifles do not whether someone can make em shoot or whether their in large quantities on the shelf. the results of the whole gun world speaks alot more than a few biased opinons about a brand that you tend to lean too. as i said before i could say remington and show all these marvelous groups but i'd be leaving alot of other guys out don't you think. happy shooting and have a great hunting season. its not far off.

sorry about the length. too much junk aye? no not 500 never bought one myself. the guys always say about 500 when they buy them.

I guess I'm just slow, I still don't get the concept of:
I'm biased because I like Rugers that shoot.
You're subjective because you don't???

I guess I'm biased toward Winchester, CZ, Marlin, Tikka and every once in a while Remington, I have shooters in each of these.

Oh well, I never was big on concepts, guess this is just another one I don't get.

Good luck with whatever you shoot, and enjoy. That's the most important concept.

Buzz:

I have the same problem with my A-Bolt 300wm. One day it shoot under 1" the next day with the identical load it shoot 2-3". I have tried over 250 rounds - 6 types of bullets from 150 gr to 200 gr and two powders - same inconsistency.

Given that this is new since March 2004, I will take it back to Browning Service Depot to get it checked out. I hope to get this corrected in time for the October moose hunt.

Don't give up, there is always a solution out there.

Cheers!

Danny Boy

id like to hear about those other rifles. calibers, bullets used and powders that have been good to you. how have they performed on game?