Thought about buying a CZ 550 action for my new rifle project, but since this will be my first time attmepting something like this, I figured I would start with something cheaper. Have been reading about the Military surplus Mauser action rifles available, and it seemed a less pricey option. My question is wich of the types of actions would be best suited. I would like to get the action re-barreled. Which caliber would depend on the strength and size of the action. So wich of these surplus Mauser actions would need the least amount of work to get re-barreled, and what are the largest calibers recommended for that type.

You need to do some serious thought on this.

A surplus military action is great, BUT, cost wise it may not be that much of an advantage....these are a few of the things that need to be done.

Safety conversion....low mount Buheler type say $30-50fitted...M70 Win 3 pos type $200 fitted
Trigger ....Timney $60+
Floor plate change if you want a hinged type, alternative being Argentine 1909 which will have it.
Reprofile bolt handle or replace with custom knob (ask the gunsmith but $50++)
If you're going with a 30/06 length case or magnum, a cut and shut on the mag box plus maybe follower change.(ask a smith) (unless you use a FN action which were made for 30/06 to start)
Drill and tap receiver for scope mounts
Polish and blue

This is without doing anything like polishing the raceways feedramp or opening up the rails for magnums.

So all of a sudden the cheap mil M98 isn't that much of an advantage $$ wise.

You may be better looking for a commercial M98 action to use like Mark X or FN.

Craig

I didn't hit any gunshops last time I was in Anchorage, so, I can't comment on the price of pre 64 M-70s up there. Down here in Central California you can pick up a beater for about $350. I used to use surplus actions, like P-14s, alot. Never did a Mauser though. Same idea. I did all the work so cost was not a factor. If that is your plan, go to it and have fun. As for me I'll keep snapping up the M-70s and making rifles that I can be proud of and that have resale value. Garage-sporter mausers never fetch much. A M-70 will have value. Heck, 350 for an action, 100 for wood, 150 for a barrel, rust blue it at home, learn to checker well, if you are a craftsman, you might even break even on that deal! : ))) Have fun.

The most expensive rifle I own is a $50 Turkish Mauser with a new barrel, new bolt handle, etc. etc. It was a fun project, and that's what I wanted. If you want a project, buy a project. If price is a consideration, just go out and buy what you want. It's a lot cheaper.

Most of my projects that I start with the intention of saving money, usually cost more than what I could have bought it for (Just like you all are saying). However, I usually have fun doing it, and usually learn a lot in the process. I appreciate all of your suggestions and inputs. Any suggestions on where to get my hands on an old Mauser action?. There seems to be pretty slim pickings here in Anchorage. Any online retailers that sells just the actions?.

Gunparts.com would have them, but I am unable to comment on their values

www.ellisonsmilitaryrifles.com $125.00 for very nice m1909 Argentine actions. The Classic.

You can put pretty much anycartridge you want into this rifle. Just don't have the work done in Alaska as there isn't anyone there that can do the work.

[This message has been edited by Roger Rothschild (edited 11-19-2001).]

Do you want something really good, or do you want something that's really cheap? What's your priority? If you want something that's both good AND cheap and you're investing in a surplus Mauser to satisfy THAT goal, you're kidding yourself..........

If you go to the expense and bother to turn a military Mauser into a best-quality rifle, you'll spend far, far for the finished product than if you would have bought an off-the-self Model 70 Winchester to begin with.

If you want cheap, you'll end up with a crude rendition of a good-quality factory rifle - one that costs at least as much but isn't as good.

So.......... Where's the economy at in this project, anyway?

AD

[This message has been edited by allen day (edited 11-19-2001).]

Just another two cents worth....

The Argentine Mauser is reputed to be excellent, and it has the advantage of a better method of opening the floor of the cartridge box.

I had a lot of fun with my project, and I did learn a lot. I also had the help of a competent and not overly expensive gunsmith.

Here's sort of the saga of my Turkington:

Bought the Turk 38 for $50.

Bought a new, take-off Remington '06 barrel for $40. Turks are mostly small ring, and a Remington barrel can be re-threaded to fit.

Spent a bunch of time with a Dremel tool and with fine sandpaper, polishing the bolt, cleaning up the tool marks and dings on the receiver and trigger guard. Spent $15, and some more time putting a low scope safety on.

Spent $125 to get the bolt handle cut off and rewelded in the bent position, the receiver drilled and tapped for a scope, the "bridge" on the receiver ground down, and the Remington barrel re-threaded and mounted. Back to the Dremel tool to clean up and shape the bolt weld, then another $50 to get everything including the SS barrel bead blasted, and the receiver and trigger guard re-blued. Add $38 for scope mounts and rings, and $40 for a Timney trigger.

Next, I cut down the military stock. When it was made, it was boiled in linseed oil. Put it out in the sun, and oil will pop up to the surface. After 60 years, the linseed oil stinks pretty badly. I figured that if I cleaned it well, and re-stained it, it wouldn't be a problem. Wrong. By now the rifle is useable, but it is clear that the stock has to go. So I spent another $125 for a stock, and fitting and finishing that will be a nice winter project.

So I had a lot of fun, and I have a rifle is just like I want it, and I learned a lot. I'm happy with the result, so it was a good bargain.

On the other hand, my present theory is that if you get a milsurp, get a good one that you pretty much shoot as-is. I got a very nice Swede for $150, and put a Mojo aperture sight on it for $50. It's a joy to shoot, perfect for deer and pronghorn, and even marginally adequate for elk. But there is no way I'm going through all that again to put a scope on it, and try to make a modern rifle out of it.

For Alaska, you might think about a Yugo 8x57 for $150-175, put a Mojo on it, slick up the exisging trigger, and call it good. If you're feeling really frisky, get it reamed out to 8mm-'06. As soon as you start thinking about scopes or different barrels, you're in for a lot of work.

Some of the finest rifles in the world are built on military surplus action..The 1909, 1935 Chelian, G33-40...

To "properly" finish a milsurp Mauser figure on $800. give or take a hundred dollar bill...

If you just want a nice rifle buy a M-70 CFR or a CZ..or even a nice used Mauser like a Sears FN. and scope it and restock it.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

A CZ BRNO VZ24 is a fantastic M98 Action.
I have built several into great shooting rifles from .243win- 458wm! Buy a good reference book!!(The Mauser bolt actions by Jerry Kuhnhausen is perfect) and get after it. You will find there is a lot less work too be done than you think!! (if you stay in the 3.340 Max. Cartridge Length) Also there ARE some FINE GUNSMITHS in ALASKA!!!
(at least Anchorage and Kenai)

Have FUN!!!

I had a VZ-24 made into a .280 rem.
Action work was:
Safety conversion 2 pos. winchester type=$90
replace bolt handle=$65
taped for scope=$30
shape & polish feed ramp=$25
weld & redrill floorplate screw holes=$35
new screws =$10
action=$100
If my math is correct thats $355 before I got a barrell on it.

TSturm,
If you've found some good ones that is truly nice. I have had bad luck, usually are able to do small jobs but when getting into the more detailed work they can't.

If you did not want to invest a lot in your first project buy a CZ 550 from brownells. Your smith should sell it to you at his cost which is about $450 or so.

Clean up a mil surplus on the cheap is $300-$500 and to do it nice is $700-800.

Mike

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There are a couple of things I like about the surplus action route. First and foremost is you have a unique firearm that was created in keeping with your wishes. You pick the barrel, the barrel contour, finish, stock design, trigger etc. Secondly, you can complete the various steps as funds permit versus one big outlay for a new rifle. I have a CZ 550 magnum Safari in .375 H&H and thoroughly enjoy the rifle but, my appreciation for the CZ pales in comparision to appreciation of my .416 Taylor built on a Colombian '98 action, with a Whitworth Express stock, three leaf sight and a heavy sporter barrel from the Montana Rifleman. That's just what I like and the rifle says that. I know not of another rifle like it

I agree with mauser416. If you know what you want, can do some of the work, then a MilSurp is the way to go. They are some very good sporterizing jobs out there...and some very bad ones also. If it is for you and you are going to keep it..then go that route. Dont kid yourself into thinking that you will ever sell it for enough to get back what you spent. Make it and use it for the purpose intended.
If you want a comparable off the rack rifle...go buy one. You'll be money ahead. If you want a one of a kind built to your specifications...then build one.
I build mine and use them for the purpose intended. regards swede

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WyomingSwede

Well since I just finished my year long swede mauser project I'll add a little here. I really like all of my REM 700 rifles but all of my buddies have custom 98 mausers so I wanted just one of my own set up the way I wanted it. The reasons for going with a swede are as follows:

1) Accurate round out of the box or with reloads (moa with factory ammo)
2) Mild recoil with enough knockdown for varmits and deer (85 gr to 156 gr)
3) Lightweight rifle for toting all day
4) Fairly inexpensive to hotrod if you do part or more of it yourself
5) Non of my buddies have one but they all want mine
6) Quality much better than most new off the shelf rifles (new rifles require $ to make them work well also)

OK now for the drawbacks:

1) All of my buddies 98s are heavy even with sporter barrels (I'm 5'9" at 145 lbs)
2) You'll be spending more money than new rifle if you have it all done
3) Mine went to 3 different smiths to get it the way I wanted it. Seems each one wanted to do all of it his way, so I had each do a little (plus I am very picky).
4) Takes an incredible amount of time and patience (not something I'm known for)
5) Your friends and family will think your crazy until they see the results (in their hands and on the target)
6) You'll go nuts trying to figure out what you really want (this took much more hours than building the gun)
7) You won't want to let it out of your sight at camp for fear your buddies will run off with it while you're not looking.
8) Everybody at the range will want to handle (screw with) it (especially the jerks and those not taught better when young, don't set it in the rack) and tell you how much better their $249 wal mart special is over your custom mauser (really gets me)

Ok I better stop there, you get the idea.

You need to think long and hard before biting the bullet, I don't know if I would do it again, but then again there isn't another one like it and it's just what I always wanted - fits like an old pair of gloves, 501s, boots, etc. Mine is done and I feel it was time and money well spent but I only want one so I'm happy and ready for for the next project - reloading. Good luck.

RJS

[This message has been edited by RJS (edited 11-21-2001).]

Some of these YUGO milsurp mausers out there for $50 to $60 are just damn nice..they are a little rough outside but that just means they left enough metal to clean up properly whereas some Mauser are polished to death. I think they are about the best buy around in years...the one I saw today over at Jack Belks was just like new, clean as a pin...tight and rails slicker n snot. I'm gonna pick up a couple of these babies.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Recently I aquired two Argintine 1909 barreled actions. These are the first Mausers I have ever owned. I am very impressed by the smooth operation of these actions. Marvelous for a military action. I plan on using these for two custom rifles, maybe a matching pair...
My question is what do I need to have done to these so the end result is a fine rifle. I see in a perevious post Mr. Atkinson tossed out the figure of 7 to 8 bills for action work. Would this be inclusive of new safty switch, trigger, bottom metal, TLC...
By the way. In the November/December issue of SAFARI have any of you seen the custom '98 in .300 H&H by David McKay Brown for auction. Looking at that rifle makes my heart begin to pound!

David Schnabel

[This message has been edited by DavidReed (edited 11-21-2001).]

A lot of good information has been passed on in this thread, and a lot of it by "Been there, done that" people.$300-$400 is about the bare minimum, even if you do a lot of the finishing work your self. The cheapest way out is, as mentioned in an earlier thread, to rechamber the stock barrel on the 8mm's, to something like the 8mm-06, or especially the 8mm-06 AI, put a Timney or Bold trigger for$35,and a cheapo safety for $10.You can modify the factory stock, or buy a dropin for about $65. Or buy a Swede 6.5X55 and leave the caliber alone. This method will get you out under$250.Your friends will tease you and tell you how much better their Sako or Weatherby is and even though you are putting all the deer and elk you can eat in the freezer with you milsurp conversion, next year you will buy a $500-$800 just to shut them up. Kinda like being the only hunter in camp with a two wheel drive pickup and a 250cc two wheel drive Yamahaha.Or a Tasco scope.

I put this one together over the past couple weeks for a friend of mine. Not the most traditional look, but it'll work as a PA whitetail rifle. Total cost of parts: $225.

Ray,
Are the YUGO's a true standard length or an immediate length? Are they good for 62mm case lengths w/o removing metal? Cobalt

efryman: I am in the process of building a custom Mauser based on a Whermacht M98 vintage 1944 action. heres a breakdown: Grind bridge, drill and tap for scope-$46.00, furnish and weld on Harris bolt handle-$60.00, furnish and install M70 type 3-position safety (a must for LOW scope mounting)-$185.00, rechamber military barrel to 8mm-06 Ackley Improved-$125.00, turn steps out of barrel and recrown, throat barrel per my sample-$55.00, shipping-$9.00, Total for gunsmith $480.00. Grade AA fancy American Walnut stock w/Ebony forend tip and grip cap w/Pachmyre 1" Decelerater pad installed inletted for Drop-in type installation (too be glass bedded and finished by me)-$198.00, Leupold Mounts and rings-$36.00, Kales 3-9x42 scope-$509.00, misc. glass bedding, Brownels floor plate release button etc.-$50.00. Items to be done at future date: matte bluing w/jeweled bolt-$180.00, Cryo treat barrel-$45.00, checkering-$350.00. Total-$1,798.00 (includes $545.00 for scope and mounts) Cheap? Not Hardly! Worth every penny? Absolutely. Performance of 8mm-06 A. I.? awesome. After working with loads for a year I have settled on 58gr IMR4064 w/180gr Nosler Balistic Tip, 2960 fps, 3501 ft. lbs. @ muzzle, carries over 2000 ft. lbs.@ 340 yds. Accuracy @ 100 yds letting the barrel cool 5 minutes between shoots-under 3/4". Consecutive shoots will open up groups to 1 1/2"-2" hence the need for Cryo treatment. My gunsmith says there is a lot of stress in barrel. Even if Cryo doesn't improve things, it is the first shot that counts and consecutive accuracy is still as good or better than most factory sporters.

Cobalt,
I didn't check that out, I think it was a standard 30-06 lenth action, pretty sure...

David,
Yes I figure $800 or "more" and that includes surface grind on a Surface grinder; blackburn bottom metal; M-70 3 pos. safty, Blackburn trigger; rails polished and whatever action work is needed; custom bolt release, Gerome Glemm 4 panel bolt; Labor and a hand polish, which is $30.00 or better per hour.. Add a Walther-Lother barrel, chambering; barrel band sights & swivels; extra barrel lugs if needed and now your at about $2000. depending, a $2000 piece of Turkish wiht another $2500 labor; $300. for a mullered checkering job; add another $200 for Forend tip, grip cap, recoil pad and you have a basic Atkinson Safari rifle on a milsurp action unless I square bridge it..but I am retired now and only build them for client that hunt or those who catch me in a weak moment...I made a mistake and figured out how much I was making by the hour....quit right there...and went into the hunting business full time.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

The Yugo's are a intermediate length action, being 3/8" shorter between the guard screws. This makes finding aftermarket stocks for them a hassle. Also the Yugo's are "safety breeched" like the Jap Arisaka & the Rem 700.

------------------
NRA Life member

You might try minnics guns and repair in eagle river,he had a few actions

Dear Rifle nuts
Commercial mausers like FN, Husqvarna, Brno are esy to find in Sweden for very little money. I bought a Obendorf mauser rifle in 8X57 JS made between the Wars with levler on the floorplate for 2800:- sek. aprox 270 U.S $. Sorry if someone gets angry, I couldn't resist..letting you know.

[This message has been edited by JOHAN (edited 11-23-2001).]

I think we need to figure out what you want the rifle to be. If you're looking for an all out custom or something like that, then economically there is no reason to go surplus. If you want to build a nice rifle for shooting and hunting, and YOU CAN DO SOME OR ALL THE WORK YOURSELF (or maybe your 'smith owes you big time) then the Mauser route will give you a nice rifle. It all just depends on what you want to end up with. I've built probably a dozen Mauser sporters for myself and the most I have into any of them is about $500.00 Canadian (approx. $350.00 US). But the only thing I usually get the local 'smith to do is the final chambering and blueing. Once in awhile something odd will come up, and he's really good about it, but that's all.

You can look at it like this (to borrow from the commercial):

action: $75
barrel & stock: 100
Misc. parts: 65
Gunsmith's labor: 150
scope (not really incl.) 220

Getting your first deer with the Mauser sporter you put together, and your own handloads you worked up for it: PRICELESS.

BTW, those are the real figures for one I just finished. You might be able to buy a cheap gun for that price, but not one with the history and lineage of Mauser; if history holds no interest for you, save your money and buy something that's ready to go. The secret to keeping costs down is to stick with '06 or Mauser __x57mm based rounds, which require no expensive receiver or bolt face mods.

Johan: I envy you.

Best to all & good hunting,
Todd

[This message has been edited by Todd Getzen (edited 11-24-2001).]

Thanks for all the input guys!. I'm still unsure about what route I will take on this project. I think if I can find a decent Surplus action I'll buy it. Will not plan on spending tons of money for a fully customized gun. Would like to buy a semi-finished stock and install myself, nothing fancy. I still keep eyeballing that CZ 550 action every time I stop by the local gunshop. So who knows?.

Hi!
Since no gun is as I want them directly from the store I�m stuck in the �mauser swamp��. . I�m not sure how many of them I�ve gone through by now but it is some 8 or 9 maybe ten. I just enjoy having a gun made as I want! I know that I�ve lost a not to small amount selling them after they were finished (could always make a better one ) but consider it well spent money as I�ve learned quite a lot along the way.

When comparing gunsmithing prices here and in the US you seem to get it somewhat cheaper done over there! Some price examples: M/70 safety ca $300, 2-position safety ca $130, epoxy bedding ca $70, drilling & tapping for scope mounts ca $60 and � safety ca $60. The prices vary of course with the most known smiths being the most expensive (some of them are worth it!).

The prices for mauser type (brno, fn, mauser etc) rifles here in Sweden are as Johan wrote probably lower than in the US. There are quite a lot of good used civilian ones around in calibers like 6.5x55, 270 Win, 30-06, 8x57, 9,3x57 and 9,3x62. They sell from ca $50 to ca $400(a civilian oberndorf usually goes from $500 and up) . And that might include mounts and a not to bad scope as well. Some are considered as junk and most gunsmiths has a pile of them standing around. Yesterday I saw a german rifle in a well used (!) state but not abused (in 8x57J with set triggers) that was destined for the fusing burner � could have had it for nothing!
I�m currently working on four different rifles based on �mauser actions�:

A Brno ZG 47 in 9,3x62 which will have its barrel shortened and get a barrel band slingswiwel(spelling?), a new stock made of wood / laminate (old one cracked now wearing a mcmillian classic which was passed down from another 9,3 I recently sold) and detachable scope mounts. This will by my moose gun when tracking moose (unwounded and wounded) with my dog. I carry the rifle on my back and it has to be as short as possible when negotiating the bush and trying to keep the leash from getting too tangled up.

Another ZG 47 in 30-06 that has a grave headspace problem. It will be rechambered to 300 Win at a first stage and then rebarreled with all the bells and whistles into a 416 Taylor or 458 Win just because I want one (OK, I admit to have gotten the Africa bug��.If you stay long enough on this forum you�re destined for it!!!).

An FN actioned 6,5x55 with a too fat barrel. Barrel will be turned down. A � safety installed, a trigger job, drilled & tapped and given a new stock. This one will, when finished, be given as a present for my girlfriend when she passes her hunters exam (hope she doesn�t read this!!) Finished (including all costs) it will have cost me ca $370-400 which for a gun that really fits I consider a steal! (Less than half of a new Tikka)

An Oberdorf Mauser in 9.3x62 (mod A ??) which will be restored to original condition (a rebluing and some stockwork is all it takes) and then have a scope in claw mounts installed when the money comes around.

I guess this was a little off topic as it�s all about �commercial� mausers, but the situation here is such that they are very much more available and affordable than their military relatives (except for m/96�s in 6,5x55 of which there are more than plenty��).

Cheers

K9

PS Johan, you're not the one who needs to appologize - I am! I bought the Oberndorf mauser for ca $50�.. DS

[This message has been edited by K9 (edited 11-24-2001).]

Ray figured my project cost to the penny. A completely rebuilt 7x57 project using an inherited 1916 G98 - $800. Shoots factory Federal Classic 175's to MOA.

Still working on the handloads.

Johan or K9,
I would be very interested if you could get me a Model 46 or Model 146 stock. I am very attracted to the esthetics of those early stocks. It would be pretty simple, I would send you cashiers check for what it would cost plus priority post mailing. You can email me offline if we can get something going.

Roger

Tell me what you want and I will try my best too get it.

Cheers
JOHAN

That my friend is as sleek and sexy a stock as I have ever seen. That is what I would like to get my hot little hands on. I would then slip one of my Argentine actions into it.

Everyone should try to do at least one mauser sporter, just to see how handy you are. It also gives me more mausers with some work done on them to buy cheap!
This isn't a dig to anyone who likes them, but I would rather hunt with the crudest mauser sporter then one of these new plastic Rem 710's or keyed safety guns and thier like.

I have a VZ24 action I bought at a gunshow for $65, it was already drilled&tapped, bolt forged, clip guides milled, then I bought a like new very very mint 8x57 barrel for $20, gunsmith cut it to 20" turned it down to take out the steps for $65, then I glass bedded it in a $60 Ramline stock, had it sandblasted and blued for $60. Total cost $270, it puts 175gr Sierras into less than a 1/2 at 100yds, every time! It shoots 150's and 175's to same point of impact at 100yds, I can use Rem, Win, and Hansen brass mixed and still shoot 1/2 groups!

[This message has been edited by GSF1200 (edited 11-28-2001).]

SamB, I like the finish on that Mauser. What is it?

These Yugo intermediate length milsurp mausers, are they small-ring? Where can they be had? Is there a particular model designation.

Thanks,

Jordan

I've been thinking about a mauser project for some time. I hope somone can help me with some questions:

Would a FN mauser rebarreled to 308 win feed as good as a long cartridge (like a 30-06)??

Would a synthetic Sako stock (long action, mcmillan sako classic) with some major inletting fit a FN mauser??