went to the game fair this weekend and came across a lovely nesika action, the gunsmith was a little apprehensive in giving me details of the action and the availability. Can anyone tell me the availability the history and an average price
regards

griff

Does this help: Nesika??

- mike

the nesika action is very nice. it was usually seen only on benchrest/varmiter type rifles. now nesika and dakota a combined into 1 company. I believe on dakotas site they will have info for you

$900-$1200+/- depending on your options you wish to have. You get into right bolt, right port, left feed, or some such conglomeration and the price goes up. Very Very nice actions,..I have seen quite a few at the BR matches.

Griff,

UK rifle smiths are allergic to people asking about the US source as they will discover the HUGE price differential....

Unfortunately post 9/11 it is very very difficult to get stuff out of the states.... I was interested in building a precision rifles clone on a borden action with a Mcmillan stock, sunny hill floor plate, jewell and kreiger. Could probably do it for $3000 when the PR finished item is $7,650 (obviously no load development etc but I could live with that)

Bottom line - it's bloody difficult if not impossible.

Good luck

quote:

Could probably do it for $3000 when the PR finished item is $7,650 (obviously no load development etc but I could live with that)

Sounds like there should be room for competion in UK It's a lot easier to buy from Canada http://www.pgwdti.com/

Nesika actions are nice but there are others to consider, like McBros mcrt, Ed Brown, Borden, BAT, etc. etc.

Cheers
/JOHAN

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Bottom line - it's bloody difficult if not impossible.

1894, "impossible": the US export, the UK import, or the two taken together?? In my experience (as we have discussed in the past), the US exports are definitely possible. They cost a bit of $$$, quite a lot of time and some red-tape, but certainly doable. I did an export last year, I plan on doing one this year. StuC is in the process of doing a US export this year, so it is done all the time. Given that, I presume you are having trouble on the UK side??

- mike

I've got a Nesika bay action to be worked in to a 338 Laupa for some long range target work. A friend and I are building two identical rifles. No holds bared to atain maximum accuracy at long ranges 1000 yds plus. We will see hoew it all works out but should be a nice project when it's finished. Right now it's on a back burner while I finish up some other projects but I really like the Nesika actions form what I've seen. I hope to have a .5 MOA rifle to 1500 yds. Time will tell but it is all dooable. Long tubes and no corner left un touched my the carful caress of stone and paper. These will sit in Mac bros stocks for complete stability. I'll be using mine on long range prarie poodle shooting out past 1000 yds and see if 2000 yds is feasiable. The bullet of choice will be a bridger bullet copper solid with a nice ogive and a brass tip for expansion. These seem to shoot in the .5s at 300 yds after some tuning. Need a deep throat and match chamber.
Again, great actons at a decient price. Just hope the Dakota infuence doesn't diminish quality. I should have both actions in a month or so. the 32" pac-nor barrels are here and ready for chambering and threading. Thease will have a muzzle break and integral bypod. Recoil pad will be adjustable for cant, height and cast. I'm looking at a 2 oz trigger and putting a 3 position on the bolt shroud. I use this set up on a 220 swift out of the box and groups droped in half with that trigger. I am now replacing all my varment triggers with the same tatical trigger. Crisp and light. When you think bang it goes bang. Turned a box stock rem vssf 2 from a .75 moa gun at 100 yds in to a .3 gun with just that change. Beading , a new crown and some free float work got it got into the .3-4s at 300 yds. I'm pleased.
John

I had a look at the nesika website so which nesika action is the best for the .338 lapua sized rounds ??

Fritz 454: Good luck on your venture with the Nesika Bay action! They are beautiful things! I KICK myself in the butt every time I see the name Nesika!
I was at a Gunshow in the Seattle, Washington area some years ago when the founder of the Nesika Bay company came by my table!
He had a large briefcase with several Nesika Bay actions in it. His company was maybe two years old at the time. Each of these actions was for sale and were unique in various ways from the "normal" Nesika Bay actions. One of the actions was made from Titanium! As I recall it was a single shot action as well and could have been turned into a nifty Varmint Rifle! He was mostly showing them around and drumming up interest. The prices were much less than they are now! Again I kick myself for passing on them!
Having said those things I wonder about your posting where you define your need for a .5 MOA Rifle at 1,500 yards?
Does a Rifle change its ability to group or attain a particular level of accuracy according to the distance its shot at?
I contend the Rifle is not changing at all! Its the distance, conditions and the bullet that initiate changes in accuracy at different distances!
In other words my Rifles that make groups at 100 yards that correspond (M.O.A. wise) to groups made at greater distances! My Rifles that shoot .500" groups at 100 yards shoot 1.000" groups at 200 yards etc etc etc.
I on occassion see or hear people referring to their Rifles being able to maintain M.O.A. out to 600 yards or 1,000 yards etc.
Again I contend that the Rifle is not changing one iota! The conditions of course change over distance and the bullet will begin to wobble and disperse (at great distances) and other "variables" come into play but the Rifle is THE Rifle and its not affected by any variables that I am aware of!
Do you follow my line of curiosity regarding your statement?
Again I wish you the best of luck with the Nesika based long ranger!
By the way did you feel the big earthquake (5.6 on the Richter scale) yesterday?
I am sick of the aftershocks! We have had 30 now in 30 hours! We had one today that was 4.0 on the Richter scale!
I can hear them coming now and that is a sinking, sickening feeling - wondering if its gonna be "THE BIG ONE"!
I am tired of them!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
...I wonder about your posting where you define your need for a .5 MOA Rifle at 1,500 yards?
Does a Rifle change its ability to group or attain a particular level of accuracy according to the distance its shot at?
I contend the Rifle is not changing at all! Its the distance, conditions and the bullet that initiate changes in accuracy at different distances!
In other words my Rifles that make groups at 100 yards that correspond (M.O.A. wise) to groups made at greater distances! My Rifles that shoot .500" groups at 100 yards shoot 1.000" groups at 200 yards etc etc etc.
I on occassion see or hear people referring to their Rifles being able to maintain M.O.A. out to 600 yards or 1,000 yards etc.

VarmintGuy, I'm sure Fritz457 will answer your question, but is what he is referring not the following: Even if a rifle is capable of shooting .5" groups @ 100 yds (which is close enough to .5 MOA not to worry about the difference), there is no guarantee it will hold .5 MOA accuracy at longer distances. Some rifles do (maybe most of yours?), but a lot of (most?) rifles shooting small groups @ 100 will not hold the same MOA accuracy at longer range.

Anyway, I'll get out of the way now, and let Fritz answer your question.

PC, I don't think Nesika makes an action large enough to accommodate the .338 Lapua. Prairie Gun Works and McBros do Lapua actions, I'm sure there are others too...

- mike

VG, I understand your thoughts on the maintenance of accuracy over the entire range of fire. However I've found that small problems with wobble or instability at 100 yards may not show that much but as the bullet travels down range it gets worse and thus increases group size at a greater rate that what you would mathematically think.

The opposite is also true as my 50 BMG is not grouping well at all at 100 yards but starts to settle down at around 300 and it deadly at anything over 400 or so. This is fairly common with the 50 as I understand it.

Thus my statement that I want a .5MOA rifle at the range I will be shooting it without any real concern of group size closer in.

The quake knocked some stuff of the shelves here and lasted for quite awhile. I think you're in Dillon so you were closer to the epicenter and it must have been really something. I've only felt 6 or so aftershocks but the big one really got my attention. Funny thing was when I went out to feed the horses at 9 PM they were all really jumpy and didn't want to eat (not usual at all). Also all the dogs were laying really low hiding under furniture and one actually pissed on the floor. They knew it was coming.

I hoped I explained the grouping issues I've seen so you get the picture. I'm not the best descriptive writer.

I'm not actually sure what the model is that I'm using. It's a right bolt, left port, single shot, and long enough to handle the Laupa. I'm sure the info is on their web site. My buddy have friends at Nesika and he arainged the purchase. I gave him the specs and he got it ordered. All I had to do was send my FFL and the money.

John

After my long saga with a Nesika receiver on a Benchrest gun, I will not own another. The cocking piece on the bolt drug in the slot in the bottom of the action. By the way, I was the second owner. The first gave up. I then had trouble with bolt lift after firing. Timing was off. Sent bolt back 2 times. Put new firing pin and lighter spring the first time and firing pin assm. the second time. A name benchrest gunsmith in our area guaranteed a fix. I got it back and it had a huge teardrop bolt knob. I will mention that the repairs did not cost me money, but no fix either. I sold it very cheaply and the guy that bought it got screwed. Butch

Fritz, how can bullets be in a large group at 100 yds and converge to a small group at long range. I am certainly not a ballistician but can't see how a bullet would know how to change directions and come together. I am certainly not trying to give you a hard time, I just don't understand. Butch

quote:

Fritz, how can bullets be in a large group at 100 yds and converge to a small group at long range. I am certainly not a ballistician but can't see how a bullet would know how to change directions and come together. I am certainly not trying to give you a hard time, I just don't understand. Butch

I don't understand it completely myself. It is simply what I've noticed and what others have also experenced. The usual rule is that it takes 300 yds for the 50 to settle in and then accuracy improves. I simply don't have the proof you want only experence and what a number of other shooters have experenced

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Fritz, how can bullets be in a large group at 100 yds and converge to a small group at long range. I am certainly not a ballistician but can't see how a bullet would know how to change directions and come together. I am certainly not trying to give you a hard time, I just don't understand. Butch

Can't say I have observed this, but it is certainly described in the "literature". Common "explanation" is of bullets "going to sleep", i.e. stabilizing at longer range. I have also heard explanations (perhaps more credible and less voodoo like) that it might have something to do with lack of parallax at different ranges for different scopes.
- mike

Here are some price examples:

remmy action 400 gbp= 800 usd
loaded rounds "308" 20gbp = 40usd per 20
burris BD 800gbp = 1600 usd

so now you can see the price difference!!!!
So who is making all the profit?

regards
griff

Mho, I can understand a bullet going to sleep later, but how does it finds its way to tighten a group. I guess in my mind the only explanation is after they go to sleep they stay on course and the others continue to go further apart. Butch

I think you guys may be overanalyzing the group statements regarding short vs long range. The "going to sleep" or tightening of groups at increased ranges is NOT due to bullets converging at longer distances. This is is actuality a stability issue. When a VLD or very long pill (long range bullets) is launched, especially with a twist rate that is just on the verge of being enough, they will quite often wobble for a few hundred yards until they gyrate into a spiral trajectory. When they impact the target at 100yds before they have stabilized, they will leave elongated holes (many times you need to measure the hole size or shape). That elongated hole where the pill impacted the target at an angle other than dead straight on, will cause the group size to be increased. THEN, the bullet goes to sleep and hits the target at 300yds and the group measures the same or slightly better. That is because the stability is in effect at that point, and the holes are no longer misleadingly elongated.

many times the LR guys will say,..she shoots 1/2" at 100yds,...BUT, she shoots 1/2" at 300yds too. That is a bullet that is NOT intended for close range shooting,..it needs some distance to settle in and fly straight.

Let me try to restate my understanding - or misunderstanding of Fritz454's posting. I also have been involved (rarely) with "ammunition" that shoots poorly at longer ranges than at shorter ranges! That is an attribute of the ammunition! The Rifle, I do not think, has much to do with the groups or accuracy "changing" proportionally from short range to long range or from long range to short range. Those changes are induced by the bullet. Not the Rifle.
When I come by a loading that is accurate in my Rifle at 100 yards I will check it at 200 or 300 yards and 98% of the time I am proven correct that it is "stable" enough (remains accurate) for my uses.
My uses stop at 600 yards as I rarely ever fire my Rifles at targets beyond that range.
So I am not learned or experienced enough to impart any experiences past that range. But I still do not understand how the Rifle can possess the ability to change accuracy with distance. I contend it is the ammunition (the bullet, the rotational speed, its gyroscopic stability, the quality and consistency of the bullets weight and shape etc) that causes variances in accuracy at varying distances.
I think I recall reading in one of my older (but amazingly technical) books on ballistics that bullets indeed do (in some instances) make a spiralling flight - and this spiral on occassion - eventually "goes to sleep". The spiral around the line of sight though was not to large and with each shot was consistently at the same point of its spiral at the same range shot after shot. This was discovered and documented by firing FMJ bullets through numerous light paper targets that were precisely aligned with survey equipment. In other words the bullets would be slightly away from line of bore at 100 yards and they all printed at 9:00 on the light paper target then at 200 yards they would be at 3:00 as they spiralled on their way. Or what ever their spiral was. Again this is a factor of the bullet and not the Rifle. To get a different spiral or different accuracy one would simply change the bullet or load (speed of the bullet).
I think?
More later
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG I understand what you're saying I can only talk form field experence of both myself and a few others that I have witnessed. The rifle plays the roll with regards to rotational energy, stability and in let off.

This is only speculation but here goes. The end of the barrel whips upon firing. It usually makes the shape of a figure eight as it ossicilates from the forces of presure and bullet motion down the barrel. Assume the bullet is in perfect line with the bore as it travels down the barrel but upon leaving the crown, the barrel is moving in one direction or another. This movement is a destabolizing effect on the bullet. The nose of the bullet has left the barrel and the barrel was at one position but is now at a different position as the rear of the bullet leaves the barrel thus there is an enviatable abount of yaw imparted to the bullet as it leaves the barrel. Shorter bullets have less impact as the amount of movement is less and they will stabolize faster. Longer bullets (ever se a 50 bmg bore rider) will have more of an off axis nudge and will take longet to settle in. This holds true for heavy for caliber high bc target bullets simply because they tend to be longer.

This is only my best guess as to what is going on. I do have a fair background in these type of things but have not studied any of in in detail. I do not want to start up a war here and have explained my understanding of it as well as I care to.

If you dissagree great I could very easily be wrong but the real life experences I've had seem to validate my thinking.

Fritz454: Good points - yours on the barrel whip (vibration) and such.
My good friend Steve always says - looking for accuracy causes questions!
Speaking of the 50 BMG - back in the early 1960's I began attending Gunshows on a regular basis. I lived at the time in the Puget Sound area of Washington State. Lots of military surplus came to our shows from the McChord Air Force base/Ft. Lewis complexes near Tacoma, Washington.
There came one day, to one of the Gunshows, some 50 BMG ammo. They were sold as curios back then as no one had guns for them. Anyway these 50 BMG's had normal looking projectile points but when shook by hand they rattled! No one could figure out what was in the projectile ends to make them rattle! Several months of specualtion ensued. Someone even cut a projectile open and found a steel insert inside the hollow projectile with room enough for it to rattle around!
Some time later we found an Air Force type that claimed he knew what the rattling insert was for! He claimed it was to induce bullet dispersion of the 50 BMG bullets! Dispersion in the form of bullets varying from all going to the same place by some unknown amount. It turns out that even the guns in the airplanes were so accurate that the Air Force had to induce dispersion (lack of accuracy) in the ammo so more hits could be insured on targets! Apparently they were thinking that the dispersion of these rounds would assist in making at least some hits on targets under conditions of war - moving targets, flying targets and unseen targets near priamry targets!
This persons explanation seemed plausible to most all of us and the curiousity subsided. I have been ratlling a lot of 50 BMG rounds lately and have not been able to find another one for my 50 BMG collection. My original "rattling" 50 BMG round "disappeared" a long time ago.
I now have many friends with 50 BMG Rifles and they rave about the accuracy they achieve and I have seen them fired at the range and in the field on many occassions - proving their contentions.
No war intended but I am curious about this phenomenon we were discussing and your contentions.
Peace brutha!
Long live the 50 BMG!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by mho:

1894, "impossible": the US export, the UK import, or the two taken together?? In my experience (as we have discussed in the past), the US exports are definitely possible. They cost a bit of $$$, quite a lot of time and some red-tape, but certainly doable. I did an export last year, I plan on doing one this year. StuC is in the process of doing a US export this year, so it is done all the time. Given that, I presume you are having trouble on the UK side??

- mike

I probably don't have enough staying power....
Borden made it sound so difficult that I decided to do something easier (and cheaper)

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
Griff,

UK rifle smiths are allergic to people asking about the US source as they will discover the HUGE price differential....

Unfortunately post 9/11 it is very very difficult to get stuff out of the states.... I was interested in building a precision rifles clone on a borden action with a Mcmillan stock, sunny hill floor plate, jewell and kreiger. Could probably do it for $3000 when the PR finished item is $7,650 (obviously no load development etc but I could live with that)

Bottom line - it's bloody difficult if not impossible.

Good luck

Sorry that's bollocks mate. I know of at least four being brought into the uk this year assembled and stocked at a cost of fifteen hundred quid each

That's good news!

Can you tell us how they're doing it?

I think Nesika action are superb I have 2 one in 243 AI I have had for nearly 1 year and Ive just had built a 7mm/300 wsm
Iam from the UK and had them built by nesika and sent over here

That's a nice rifle, Fox. I'd have fluted the barrel for even more eyebrow-raising power at the range. It looks like you have a thread protector on the muzzle? Nice stock...

quote:

Originally posted by rootbeer:
That's a nice rifle, Fox. I'd have fluted the barrel for even more eyebrow-raising power at the range. It looks like you have a thread protector on the muzzle? Nice stock...

Glad you like it,Iam just running in and finding a load,boys she barks when you let it rip but thats the problem with being used to using rifles with a moderator fitted,kind of spoils you