Just so the guys on the thread “building a rifle†will have a nice new and empty place to post their thoughts on “CRF vs PF†actions I thought I would open this new thread for them!

Its been awhile for this favorite subject. The greatest argument I have ever heard end this debate. One of the old WW vets was visiting the sportsmans club when the local safari guys got into it about Remingtons vs Mauser claw extractor for DG etc. Of course the safari guy said if your life depended on it you'll want a Mauser. Positive feed and extraction etc. The old vet interrupted the conversation an said something to the effect, If you've seen as many dead Germans holding jammed Mausers as I have you'd want a Garand. I saw a video clip of what looked like a shooter with an FAL shooting charging Elephants. He must have dropped 4 or five elephants in a split second not sure why he shot them, but he was very effective. Wonder how it would work on Buff.

Geeze Rick, not again!

I wonder just how mant folks have had their minds swayed by all the discussion....

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Geeze Rick, not again!

I only did this as a joke...but I guess that fact got lost somewhere between my key board and the forum.

Oh, well...so much for humor.

Rick,
You thought I thought you were serious? Now that's humorous.

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
Rick,
You thought I thought you were serious? Now that's humorous.

Craigster,

I assumed you were well aware of my tendency to lean toward sarcastic humor most of the time...but I guess some others took it seriously. I guess the smirk/grin on my face doesn’t show up well in the typed word!

Gentlemen

Don't ya'll know that this has all been settled with the Winchester CRPF. End of story. Get a life and buy one already.

Shawn

How many people really give a rip about whether a rifle is PF or CRF? I prefer PF for a varmint rifle simply because I often single feed the rounds. Some CRF actions sometimes have a bit of a problem with the extractor snapping over the head of the case when the round doesn't feed from the magazine. Adapt!

quote:

Originally posted by bluetick:
Gentlemen

Don't ya'll know that this has all been settled with the Winchester CRPF. End of story. Get a life and buy one already.

Shawn

Shawn,

As a matter of fact I have. And sideways, pointed straight up, straight down...and in just about any other position you could think of...and haven't yet had a problem cycling an entire mag box full of dummy rounds through it.

I'll go out on a limb here.

IMHO BOTH are better than a muzzleloader when facing a big angry Alaskan Brown Bear or a charging Cape Buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:

Shawn,

As a matter of fact I have. And sideways, pointed straight up, straight down...and in just about any other position you could think of...and haven't yet had a problem cycling an entire mag box full of dummy rounds through it.

Sure and that worked for me too with a .223
But, with my new s.Hand 458 Push feed the shear
weight of that big 500 gr bullet stops feeding
anyway but upright. . . which is the best way for shooting anyway. (And I wouldn't swap her for a CRF, . . . now we've met.)
John L.

Rick

If you notice the "have you cycled your PF..." is in my tag line. It is more or less a joke. I have had it there for I'm sure over a year now. My point with it is that most people have never even tried to dispel the myth. In the same way a lot of people who say a CRF is "best" don't really understand what makes it "best". The funny thing about it is the way it’s worded, both camps think I’m on their side. If all the people wondering and arguing about it would go out and shoot a few thousand rounds this year the point would be null. And by all means get a Winchester CRPF if you can't make up your mind. The "claw" extractor guys won’t even hardly acknowledge the greatest advancement in firearms since smokeless powder. What’s up with that?
Seriously though, isn’t the Win. CRPF like a politician at election time? Every thing to everybody and can’t really solve anything.

Shawn

O.K., I'll bite, what exactly makes the Win. CRPF ...the greatest...etc.? How does it better my old Mod. 70 in .375 H&H, which holds five rounds, feeds flawlessly and shoots 300 NPs into moa groups. Not to mention the quality control issues with current production Win.s ( and everyone else, it seems), but, I just don't see anything superior in the CRPF...over the FN-LE action, the "old" Mod. 70 and especially the really good Mauser derivatives such as the ZG-47 and 21H Brno actions.

kutenay

I'm just being a smart arse with the CRFP stuff. On the one hand it's the answer to the question no one asked and on the other it is probably a good idea. For the most part it will still get you killed or lose you the buck of a life time if you don't use it properly.

Shawn

bluetick,
First off, how have you been and how is our mutual friend Dave?

Back on topic, what I want is a rifle that is a combination of push feed and CRF that combines the worst features of both. We can have a thread topic then and ask opinions on what we can do to improve it and hire a metalsmith to spend a shit pot of money to make it still not the equal of either one of it's parents. All the while we will suffer at the peripheral opinions of Savage 99 and the recommendations, or should I say firm demand from AD that the gun be sent to Echols to get his standard 186 point treatment (at the paltry sum of $13,495) to make the gun feed smoothly and positively. Now that will be a treat in itself, I can hardly wait.

In all seriousness guys, to a good shooter with good habits, it really doesn't matter. To the average shooter who doesn't have good habits, the CRF is the better system. True story, I have met two guns shop owners (one of a national chain) that short stroked their PF guns and couldn't figure out why the gun wouldn't go off the second time. What they didn't do right was pull the bolt all the way back, they pulled it back until they saw the brass fly then pushed it forward. Well you know, the bolt wasn't far enough back to pick up the next round. Beginners shouldn't be expected to understand everything, so until they can I always recommend a CRF.

I do like the CRPF Winchester action, though I hate the name. Usually they are lower priced and a very good recommendation for newer shooters.

Aaron

Hello the campfire:
The answer to the question of which is better, control feed or puch feed is .......WHICH EVER YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE!!!!
Seriously, they each have advantages and disadvantages. I would not turn down either under my Christmas Tree, or count a rifle out if I likes it other wise just be cause if the car. feed. I have both and have not had a problem with either.

Judge Sharpe

Bluetick,

Sorry brother...Like I said in my post to Craigster it’s hard to see the smile on the authors face when simply reading the printed word.

I have just always found this topic to be incredibly hilarious...especially after I did try the experiment myself and found that it works just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Bluetick,

Sorry brother...Like I said in my post to Craigster it’s hard to see the smile on the authors face when simply reading the printed word.

Well why not put your smile/leer/ whatever in your Avtar. I would only I don't know how.
At least my smilies have noses :-).
Besides any discusion on rifles is better than none.

John L.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
Well why not put your smile/leer/ whatever in your Avtar. I would only I don't know how.
At least my smilies have noses :-).
Besides any discusion on rifles is better than none.

John L.

John,

As soon as I find out what an Avtar is I’ll decide about putting a smiley face there or not.

Hello, Chic, I hope you're enjoying yourself !

Getting down to the point of the question, CF is better for a hunting rifle, but only if it feeds 100 % of the time and is totally reliable. This takes considerable adjustment or customization on occasion, sometimes just minor tweeking, sometimes no tweeking. It all depends on the individual rifle.

Sometimes PF rifles feed BETTER than CF rifles, particularly on an out-of-box basis. I can think of quite a few Remington 700, post-64 Model 70, Weatherby Mark V, and Sako rifles I've worked with that fed better than poorly adjusted Mausers and Model 70s I've owned or have been around.

But my personal preference at the end of the day is CF for a big game rifle.

AD

I like CRF even for foxes and rabbits

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
I like CRF even for foxes and rabbits

Me too... and for 'F' class Military rifle shooting - no 'dangerous game', but a real need for consistent and reliable feeding...

Just a minute Rugeruser, wern't you the one saying how wonderful the SMLE push feeds are?
And do they have 22RF CRF rabbit rifles?

I can guess PC uses his 458 lott on rabbits!.

And Rick, I may have spelt it "rong" but some
fellas have there wee picture along with their name. Cleaver little sods.
John L.

JAL,

you're absolutely right... I still think that the SMLE is the best bolt action 'battle rifle' ever built, and am in the process of buying one for Military shooting... one major advantage it has over the Mauser (I think) is that the SMLE extractor will slip over the case rim of a chambered round - as far as I know (and I've never tested it) the stock standard Mauser doesn't do that, unless pressure is applied to the extractor behind where it rotates around the bolt...

On a more modern rifle (eg my beloved Ruger and my son's CZ 527) the extractor will slip over the rim, and work effectively.

I've had feeding, extraction and ejection failures with both PF and CRF, but overall, I prefer CRF...

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
Just a minute Rugeruser, wern't you the one saying how wonderful the SMLE push feeds are?
And do they have 22RF CRF rabbit rifles?

I can guess PC uses his 458 lott on rabbits!.

And Rick, I may have spelt it "rong" but some
fellas have there wee picture along with their name. Cleaver little sods.
John L.

Jal..........no I use my .22 Hornet but it's a cz 527 with a mini mauser action

I must admit to owning a rem 700 22-250 though

quote:

Originally posted by allen day:
Hello, Chic, I hope you're enjoying yourself !

Getting down to the point of the question, CF is better for a hunting rifle, but only if it feeds 100 % of the time and is totally reliable. This takes considerable adjustment or customization on occasion, sometimes just minor tweeking, sometimes no tweeking. It all depends on the individual rifle.

Sometimes PF rifles feed BETTER than CF rifles, particularly on an out-of-box basis. I can think of quite a few Remington 700, post-64 Model 70, Weatherby Mark V, and Sako rifles I've worked with that fed better than poorly adjusted Mausers and Model 70s I've owned or have been around.

But my personal preference at the end of the day is CF for a big game rifle.

AD

I would have to agree with that assessment especially for me as I have had considerably better luck with push feeds for reliability hence the reason I own more Remingtons and Savages than anything else. As far as that goes the only two rifles that have never given me any problems of any kind are my two Remington 7600's and in recent years with the exception of my 7mm-08 I have turned to them more than anything.