I'm sharing this so that maybe some of you might avoid similar events.

I've been using USPS Priority Mail to ship firearms; cost is relatively reasonable and delivery confirmation is free. I print the labels and purchase postage through the USPS website and all I have to do is drop the package at the Post Office so it saves time and delivery time is 2 - 3 days.

Well, I got a call from Bushmaster yesterday afternoon that may change all that. I'd shipped them a customer's M17 Bullpup rifle so they could update it to a newer, more robust configuration. They called to tell me they'd been delivered an empty box. I called the Postal Inspectors and someone there took my name and address information, but they weren't even interested in information regarding the rifle, such as model or serial number. I then called the local ATF who gave me the number for their stolen gun department. I called them and they told me that since the rifle was stolen in-transit there was a special form that I could fill out if I wanted to but it was optional.

I felt lucky when I found one of these M17s on Gun Broker last night and bought it for $675 so I can replace my customer's rifle, but the realization that I can't trust the US Postal Service makes me sick. Mind you, I'm not surprised, but I am none the less disheartened.

go registered mail, especially on valuable items. Its sealed and signed for every step of the way, and cheaper too if the insured value is very high. I shipped an 8 pound package yesterday, insured for 7500$ and it cost me 35$. It the most secure way to ship in my opinion.
Steve

John, sorry to hear that! I've used USPS Priority for all kinds of things, antiques, ebay items, guns, etc. have never had a problem, unlike UPS which was frequently a problem.

Was the gun insured? If so, won't you get a settlement? If not, why not?

In insure anything over 50 bucks.
But then I'm a cheap bastard.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty Marlin:
In insure anything over 50 bucks.
But then I'm a cheap bastard.

Rusty,
You are a cautious bastard. A cheap bastard wouldn't pay for insurance.

John, I know how you feel. I had this happen about a year and a half ago with a beautiful and probably very rare Krieghoff Mauser. I bought it from a fellow member here on AR. It was a smallring with a guild type (1/2 oct 1/2 round W/integral parts) barrel chambered in 7X57. The rifle was either stolen or lost in transit and was never recovered. To make things worse, USPS denied the claim the 1st time around. They said the rifle wasn't supposed to be shipped by a non-FFL holder. Luckily the shipper did have a FFL and they paid the claim, but it wasn't an easy process and they tried to get out of it. Needless to say, my experience shipping guns USPS doesn't mirror most of what I read here.

Terry

When pistols were legal in the UK I came home once to find that the postal service had left a package with a brand new Springfield P9 on my back doorstep. Which was very nice of them. The package was supposed to have been a signed for service too!

Doesn't anyone remember the days when the USPS required all packages containing guns to be marked in 1" high letters " FIREARM " .The gun theft rate went up 700 % !! Even some of the postmasters were telling you not to mark the box !

F rom my experience, USPS is still about the safest way to send firearms... UPS and Fed Ex automatically deny the claim first time around...If you read the fine print UPS and Fed Ex is not actually insurance! Send registered or at least insured and problems will diminish...having said that, I send most of my stuff Fed Ex because of the convenience with an account. Air shipments with high declared value almost never result in a problem..use buillet proof cases or boxes!

I'm going to use Registered Mail from now on. It will be a hassle on both ends but I'm just sick over the loss of this rifle that was entrusted to me. I've found a replacement and the customer is satisfied but what if it were one of "Grandpa's guns"; something I couldn't replace? And what about the dirtbag that now has a bullpup rifle? Granted, it doesn't cycle but that's not the point.

I was contacted today by both the ATF and the US Postal Inspectors but neither of them gave me any reason to believe they'll catch the perps.

In the same vein, I sold a forum member 50 rounds of 416 rem mag by UPS. he PM'd me saying he had received 10 rounds, where were the rest? i refunded his money, but theres 40 rounds 416 out there somewhere; maybe a UPS employee with a 416 and a fondness for swift a frames!

I bought some neodymium magnets mail order.

I received and empty box with a hole in it.

They must have stuck to the wall in the truck and pulled a hole in cardboard.

The replacement shipment was hard to open.

I usually ship UPS. The only problem I run into is when I declare that the package contains a gun. I live in a very anti-gun area and I had several UPS centers refuse to ship the package. They always said I needed to drive 40 minutes away to some central office. They basically treated me with disdain.

So now I just ship the package as "machine parts.". I'm sure that is against the rules, but it protects the package from being messed with and allows me to ship without alerting the anti-gun crowd.

John:

If you don't get the attention of the Postal Inspectors Office, you have several options. Go up the chain to the District Postal Inspectors Supervisor. Also write a letter to the US Attorney's office where you mailed the rifle. The Postal Inspectors Office also has a Office of Inspector General's Ofiice. This is the oversite agency over the Post Office.
They generally have bigger fish to fry but a theft of a firearm while in the custody of the Post Office is a very serious matter.
Longshot

After many years in government the secret for
getting someone to do their duty is to contact
their bosses boss. If you can prod , or imbarass, their boss this way they will have a personal interest in your problem
Good Luck!

I feel for you John !. Dam hiring policy's the USPS has these days is disgraceful !.

Reminds one of Air Port security or baggage handlers !.

Stay on their Asses about it , if need be use the Media to YOUR advantage !. TV reporters and those gripe type investigators can be REAL HANDY pushing the RIGHT BUTTON to get answers !!!.

It's real embarrassing having some TV trouble shooting crew march into an office looking for answers , it's not like the person can HIDE !.

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

Send anything of that value via REGISTERED MAIL!! That way, everyone who touched it has to personally sign a receipt for it.

That's the way diamonds are shipped, for crap sake!!

So now we can't even trust the Postal Service? Ben Franklin is spinning in his grave. I guess I will not ask my dad to send me his fully-restored 1950 Model 70 through them...



Join the NRA. They offer health insurance as well as Freedom insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Send anything of that value via REGISTERED MAIL!! That way, everyone who touched it has to personally sign a receipt for it.

That's the way diamonds are shipped, for crap sake!!

I'd bet you dollars to donuts that diamonds ares shipped via private courier.

I agree that registered mail is a very good way to ship but its a real pain to have to use that paper tape to secure everything.

I just received a handgun via USPS registered, priority mail...I had to sign (and print) to get it. It had no paper tape on the package.

It took 2 days longer than either fedex or ups overnight, but it was half the cost, too.

Toomany tools, you didn't say; was the package insured?

quote:

Originally posted by rem721:

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Send anything of that value via REGISTERED MAIL!! That way, everyone who touched it has to personally sign a receipt for it.

That's the way diamonds are shipped, for crap sake!!

I'd bet you dollars to donuts that diamonds ares shipped via private courier.

I agree that registered mail is a very good way to ship but its a real pain to have to use that paper tape to secure everything.

How many dollars would you care to lose? You are dead wrong, most diamonds and anything else that's small and valuable are mostly shipped by registered mail in the US. The exceptions are if the shipper has an insurance deal that requires FedEx, which is fairly common. Shipping by private courier is prohibitively expensive and is probably less safe than registered mail. I haven't seen any actual figures, but the loss rate on registered mail is insignificant because everyone that handles it has to sign for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Shipping by private courier is prohibitively expensive and is probably less safe than registered mail. I haven't seen any actual figures, but the loss rate on registered mail is insignificant because everyone that handles it has to sign for it.

Signing for it and being able to hang on to it are two different things. I came out of the shop last winter to see my mail carrier making snow angels in the neighbors drive way. Of course I fought the urge to join in with the neighborhood kids by kicking more snow on him. Just kidding!

If I were in the diamond business, I think I would rather have a bonded and armed courier transporting my valuables.

Well, you're not in the diamond business, your preferences would add prohibitively to the costs.....say a shop in Cal wants a diamond worth $20,000 and you're in NY. Who do you think is going to pay the extra few thousand dollars for hand delivery compared to about $40 for insured registered mail with practically zero loss rate. BTW, probably the largest cut diamond seller in the world is BlueNile, they use FedEX for most deliveries. I don't know anything about their business but undoubtedly they have an insurer which insures their FedEx packages separately, it is a common arrangement for coins and diamonds.

This is another debate about which is the best way to skin a cat. I've got arguments both ways.

My best friend had a diamond shipped from Phoenix, AZ to Tampa,FL by another of my close friends. Dealer (shipper) cost of the stone was just over $10,000, and at that he was a pawn broker who bought it at a fraction of its true retail value. Anyway, he shipped it fully insured registered mail via USPS. When the package was delivered to the purchasing friend in Florida, it had a neat little hole in the top middle of it, just about the size of a human finger. Everything was there EXCEPT the diamond and the package was otherwise pristine. USPS refused to honour their own insurance, paying a total of only $700, and that only after USPS was gotten after by yet another mutual friend and relative who was (is) an attorney.

On the other hand, I have a close friend here in Oregon who deals in firearms, precious metals, and diamonds...enough so that he is known all over the West and Northwest in the trade by the name "Diamond Dan". He ships his stones and precious metals exclusively by registered mail and has never had a loss. All his guns are shipped by UPS.

Which is best? Quien sabe? None of them are perfect, but personally I prefer insured USPS for the things they will handle.