On certain rifles the bolt handle is straight down and on some rifles the bolt handle is angled back. What if any are the advantages to either one of these styles? I've noticed on most of the expensive custom rifles the bolt handle is usually straight down and not angled back. Why?

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
On certain rifles the bolt handle is straight down and on some rifles the bolt handle is angled back. What if any are the advantages to either one of these styles? I've noticed on most of the expensive custom rifles the bolt handle is usually straight down and not angled back. Why?

I believe the objective is to have the bolt handle right above your trigger finger when it is resting on the trigger, so that upon firing, you merely raise your hand straight up and are grasping the bolt knob......

If you shoot your rifle, no advantage to either. Best example is a lefty who shoots a righty rifle. With practice he'll cycle the bolt better than a righty who doesn't.

As far as cosmetics, do you prefer blondes or red heads. I like shaven blondes, and I like bent handles.

The theory, at least one anyway, is that on hard kickers the handle is more staright up and down to avoid battering the knuckles during recoil. Lighter kicking rifles can have the handle angled back. Me, I build all mine with the straight type handle cuz I like them best.

FMC & z1r,
Show us pictures of the bent handles, and especially of the shaven blondes.

Thanks,
KB

Here's one on the .338-06 I recently built. I hadn't sent it out for checkering yet when I took the pics.

Most of mine look similar.



Here is one I did for an open sight rifle. It is only roughly shaped at this point. And no work has been done on the action it is only for test fitting.

quote:

Originally posted by Pegleg:
On certain rifles the bolt handle is straight down and on some rifles the bolt handle is angled back. What if any are the advantages to either one of these styles? I've noticed on most of the expensive custom rifles the bolt handle is usually straight down and not angled back. Why?

One reason is the angle of the bolt will effect the length of stroke to open the actiion and close it. van

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
The theory, at least one anyway, is that on hard kickers the handle is more staright up and down to avoid battering the knuckles during recoil. Lighter kicking rifles can have the handle angled back.

I think Z1R has nailed this one.

Personally I like the aesthetics of slightly laid back bolt handles but I suspect most like them straight down.

Recoil should be considered but for a 7 X 57 style you can have it any way you like them.

quote:

Originally posted by van:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pegleg:
On certain rifles the bolt handle is straight down and on some rifles the bolt handle is angled back. What if any are the advantages to either one of these styles? I've noticed on most of the expensive custom rifles the bolt handle is usually straight down and not angled back. Why?

One reason is the angle of the bolt will effect the length of stroke to open the actiion and close it. van[/QUOTE)

I don't agree with that statement.

Why?[/QUOTE]One reason is the angle of the bolt will effect the length of stroke to open the actiion and close it. van[/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by van:
One reason is the angle of the bolt will effect the length of stroke to open the actiion and close it. van

But remember there's a tradeoff between the shortness of the stroke and the leverage of the stroke. At the end of the day, it's mostly a matter of style. I prefer straight handles on Mausers but like swept handles on a M70.

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One reason is the angle of the bolt will effect the length of stroke to open the actiion and close it. van[

wouldn't the "length of stroke" be judged by the end of the handle's perpendicular distance from the bolt?

just guessin'.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:
[QUOTE]One reason is the angle of the bolt will effect the length of stroke to open the actiion and close it. van[

wouldn't the "length of stroke" be judged by the end of the handle's perpendicular distance from the bolt?



NO. The distance the bolt travels will remain the same. Once the bolt is raised, it will be a distance from where the bolt locks up and to the point where it is stopped by the bolt stop/ejector set up.

This distance remains unchanged no matter what angle the bolt handle has. An angled bolt handle (at the knob) will start farther back, but must go farther back to hit the bolt stop/ejector set up! (The position of the root
will basically remain at the same point, and thus, travel the same distance.)

A longer bolt, or one set at a lesser angle will require less upward travel to unlock the bolt. But that is not the same as bolt stroke.
That would be bolt "lift"!

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NO. The distance the bolt travels will remain the same. Once the bolt is raised, it will be a distance from where the bolt locks up and to the point where it is stopped by the bolt stop/ejector set up.

are they talking about the distance the bolt travels in and out of the action, or the lift?

I assumed lift from what I read.

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the angle of the bolt will effect the length of stroke to open the actiion and close it

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But remember there's a tradeoff between the shortness of the stroke and the leverage of the stroke.

And I have an 11th grade education, plus nine weeks of welding school

You are right tin can, there is a difference between bolt "lift" and bolt stroke! But
a lot of people compare oranges and apples, and don't know the difference!

And sometimes they pick up and apple and delare how nice and red the orange is. It's called
failure to communicate, and often has little to do with education.

By the way, I attended the welding school at Lincoln Electric in Cleveland, Ohio, although
it was many, many years ago!

Sorry if I offended you, I was simply trying to offer information. One cannot pick up an orange and begin to explain the nice deep red color and texture of the skin without some confusion!

By the way, I don't think angle of bolt "lift" is affected either, except that the Knob may have less or greater distance to travel depending on it's length. The degrees of lift is dictated by the action design, not by the bolt handle!

If you indeed thought they meant "lift", and I have no reason to doubt that, you should have corrected the improper use of the term "stroke".

That's what knowledgeable people do, ragardless of their education.

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By the way, I attended the welding school at Lincoln Electric in Cleveland, Ohio, although
it was many, many years ago!

me too- did you know dennis klingman or jim illig?

they were instructors there.

around 75-6 for me.

quote:

orry if I offended you, I was simply trying to offer information. One cannot pick up an orange and begin to explain the nice deep red color and texture of the skin without some confusion!

wasn't offended

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
The theory, at least one anyway, is that on hard kickers the handle is more staright up and down to avoid battering the knuckles during recoil. Lighter kicking rifles can have the handle angled back. Me, I build all mine with the straight type handle cuz I like them best.

It's not a theory. My first 458 lott had the as issued P-17 dogleg. I beat the heck out of my knuckle and drew blood from a buddy who'd cut his finger skinning a boo the week before he shot it, and opened up the cut most handily.

For a serious recoiling rifle, ie 40 caliber on up, straight down is the only way to go. I haven't noticed any problem finding a bolt that is straight down. Also make sure you don't have a front sling swivel stud on your stock on a big gun.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:

quote:

orry if I offended you, I was simply trying to offer information. One cannot pick up an orange and begin to explain the nice deep red color and texture of the skin without some confusion!

wasn't offended

Good! No, I was there in 84 or 85,
and don't really remember who the instructors were. I'm an old bastid and sometimes don't remember things too well!

Don-

what I learned there has stood me well over the years

I grew up in the area, also.

The purpose of having a swept back bolt handle is to put it closer to the firing hand for faster operation. Simply raising the firing hand, grasping the bolt, bringing it back and forward and dropping the hand to the trigger is a fraction of a second faster than having to first reach forward to grasp it and then having to pull back to reach the trigger after operating the bolt.
The fastest of all bolt actions was/is the British SMEL as the bolt handle is behind the trigger. Trained shooters could fire more than a shot per second.
There is some truth to the fact that a heavy recoiling rifle need the bolt handle farther forward, especially if the stocks are slim like the English rifles. But on a stock you can hang on to the bolt can be swept back. My 505 Gibbs has the handle swept back and it has never hit my knuckles.
I think today the main reason bolt handles are fashioned straight down is simply to look more "classic".
People familiar with their rifles can get used to, and pretty handy with, any bolt placement and I have heard comments from users of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer actions - with bolt handles placed in the middle of the bolts and inches ahead of the trigger - that it felt natural to first reach foreward and again back. I don't see how any extra, abrupt movement can be as fast but the centrally placed bolt handles sure make for a slick, non-binding bolt throw.

I like a straight bolt handle for its classic look, but I've never had the bolt hit my finger even on .458's, .416's.