placed a very large order for bottom metal 4 years ago. Paid in full for 20 pieces of various models. Still waiting.
Now can not get Magie to return calls. Have tried for months. Now blackburns has new owners, i am anxious to settle with Ted and Maggie. Anyone that has contact info, please let me know.

Good luck...

http://www.swiftbullets.com/

Ditto...
Maggie, are you out there?

Leonard, you're only going to get more of the same from Ted and Maggie. I'd get in touch with Swift ASAP. Swift is probably going to be your only hope. If Swift bought Blackburn Machine as a going concern, then they assumed the liability to you. More likely Swift purchased only certain assets from Blackburn in order to avoid the myriad liabilties that Ted has accumulated. However, Swift may still help you out if you contact them and raise a fuss.

I seriously doubt that you're the only person in this situation with Blackburn...it's best to get in line early.

I know Ted has earned himself his spotted reputation. Like many he was a much better craftsman than businessman and it seems often he allowed financial desperation to sway him to take $$ that in retrospect can only be viewed as fraudulent.

So to temper the cascade of negative comments that these threads spawn, I'll say that when I was young and wanting an in to the custom gun making world Ted showed me a great deal of kindness and gave me much of his time to help get me started.

Just received an email from them.


We have just a few of the Ted Blackburn mad bottom metal in stock.

7 Model #W52, Winchester Model 52 B&C, with 2 clip caps and trigger $320.00
4 Model #18, Mauser .375 H&H Mag. $360.00

If you would like any of these please let me know.

Thank You,
Ted Blackburn & Maggie Baum

The disgusting thing about this whole situation is that Maggie was on this forum several times trying to drum up business, and making excuses for delay in delivery, and asking everyone to be patient. Now that the business is done for, she seeems to be totally uninterested in helping the people that the company screwed. The ultimate low life type of person, right up there with Greg Hein.

You obviously don't know Ted, his daughter Maggie or their story.

quote:

You obviously don't know Ted, his daughter Maggie or their story.

Let's see we have items for sale but not for unfilled prepaid orders.

While Ted and Maggie might be good people they suck from a business stand point. I had ordered a trigger from them for the Scholarship Rifle we built a couple years ago. I was told it was in stock (if it hadn't been would have went a different direction) and would ship within a day or two. That became weeks then months. Someone loaned me a trigger for that project. I can't remember how long and how it was all finally cleared up.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340

While Ted and Maggie might be good people they suck from a business stand point.

Wont argue that point; but I never had a problem with the triggers I ordered.

quote:

Let's see we have items for sale but not for unfilled prepaid order

Paul, as you know, the mom & pop craftsman run items in batches.

But they are not

quote:

The ultimate low life type of person, right up there with Greg Hein.

For me, it is sad to see the old craftsman (like Ted & Jim Wisner) retiring.

Leonard

I would contact Swift to see if they will fill your order(doubtful).

When/if that turns out to be a dead end I would contact Ted/Maggie to see if you can work out a deal to take over their remaining stock.

I would insist on getting all the remaining bottom-metal and whatever else you can get as far as actions and parts.

Ted took your money and sold his business without filling your order. Unless Swift is responsible for fulling your order(according to the terms of sale of the business) Ted has committed fraud.

Jim, you are right, I do not know Ted or Maggie, but unless the originator of this thread is being untruthful, he has had approx. $4K of his money (guessing at the cost of the 20 peices) tied up for over 4 years. Maggie joined this forum about 2 years ago, trying to drum up business and making all types of promises and excuses about delays. I realize that running a small "mom and pop" business is not easy, and all the other problems that have been stated do occur, but when it comes down to the bottom line, money was taken for a product in advance, the product was not delivered, and apparently no refund was given.
Do all the problems Blackburn was having justify taking someone esle's hard earned money? How about continuing to take money and not delivering products? How about coming to a public forum and making all sorts of promises that weren't kept? How about cutting off all communication from your customers that have paid?
Again, I realize that there were a lot of issues, but there is no excuse for doing that sort of business...at least not in my opinion.
It is sad that some of the best craftsmen are retiring, or have passed on, but bad business practices of companies like Blackburn, make it that much harder for new, talented people to get a start in the business.

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340

While Ted and Maggie might be good people they suck from a business stand point.

Wont argue that point; but I never had a problem with the triggers I ordered.

quote:

Let's see we have items for sale but not for unfilled prepaid order

Paul, as you know, the mom & pop craftsman run items in batches.

But they are not

quote:

The ultimate low life type of person, right up there with Greg Hein.

For me, it is sad to see the old craftsman (like Ted & Jim Wisner) retiring.

Jim Wisner is retiring???? I know Leroy did, but Jim???

Jim, maybe I miss spoke, but I saw on a recent post where he mentioned he had sold his equipment to a local gentleman. Maybe it was just a portion of his business

If I started a bad rumor, I apologize.

Update: Went back & found the post. Jim sold off "assembled Buelher type safties that the former Precise Metalsmithing..."

I was confusing Leroy & Jim

Don't want to get flamed here, and not trying to be mean or sarcastic, but I have what I believe is a legitimate question.
After reading this thread, and others in the past, there have been some people who have been "idolized" for lack of a better word even if they took work and didn't do it, took money for a job they never completed, or ruined customer's property.
There are the Greg Hein's and then there are the Blackburn's. (For examples only!!!)The question is, both Hein and Blackburn took customer money and did not provide a product or a service, and did not return said money.
From this thread there are a lot of defenders of Blackburn and I have seen none of Hein. So how, or why, are people who do the same thing judged so differently?
Again, not wanting to be flamed for this, just would like to know why some people get a pass by forum members for doing the same thing that those same forum members would like to see other people thrown in jail for.

Ted was in business for 53 years

One thing for sure about the custom gun trade that Ive discovered from my personal experience over some decades is:,
when you initiate communication to make your money available to them, they will often offer swift communication and give you all sorts of impressions of what service and delivery times you can reasonably expect to receive.

However when things don't go to plan and your still waiting on your order,it can be a complete reversal, communication can be poor or non-existent from their end.

Those that have a well proven good record/reputation normally maintain it.
Those that don't have a good record are very likely to keep that poor reputation.
In my experience, time has proven that statement to be mostly true.
I purchased my first Blackburn BM units over 20yrs ago from a custom smith.
...I was fortunate in that he had them arrive not long before, after he had already suffered some 2yrs delay in prepaid delivery.

I will say that Ted Blackburn was generous with his time/helpful with advice when discussing issues on custom rifles, but so have other people who also managed to maintain a reputation for delivering their product as indicated.

I really do not want to disparage either Ted or Maggie. I am out quite a bit more than 4K on prepaid goods. I have tried to phone them numerous times over the last month. I prepaid for the goods in good faith and wish they would reciprocate in kind. I have not pressed them severely for the debt in either cash or goods, but might have to seek a legal remedy. A costly endeavor but one i am willing to persue if necessary.. This can all be settled if the lines of communication were open.

I will post my question again...one person was out over $5K, if I remember right, when dealing with Greg Hein. Look at the posts about him when that happened.
Ib404 is out "quite a bit more than $4K" according to him, but the defenders of the Blackburns are still hard at it. I am sorry, I just don't get it.

Because they were in business longer before they screwed people not being a smartass, but it looks like that was a reason given.

I too have found that sometimes people get backed up even when they've screwed people, TO A POINT. at some point even somebodies defenders will get quiet if it is a widespread enough, or glaring enough problem. I wonder if this is because of personal relationships we feel the need to defend our friends. Often times it is a dilemma, if I believe bad about this person does it compromise my ability to have a relationship with them? I have been in that situation myself, and it is never easy. I do realize though, sometimes you don't have to defend a friend, sometimes you can't, but if they're a friend you don't join in the bashing.

Red

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
I really do not want to disparage either Ted or Maggie. I am out quite a bit more than 4K on prepaid goods. I have tried to phone them numerous times over the last month. I prepaid for the goods in good faith and wish they would reciprocate in kind. I have not pressed them severely for the debt in either cash or goods, but might have to seek a legal remedy. A costly endeavor but one i am willing to persue if necessary.. This can all be settled if the lines of communication were open.

I'm giving some free non-legal advice.

You've been screwed, you aren't going to get unscrewed, and spending any significant amount of time and, especially, money to try to unscrew yourself is a waste of your time and resources. Chalk it up to a bad deal and move on. As an example, ask how much Jorge has collected from Hein?

That is why i have not pressed viggerously.i will find a way to 1099 ted legally and lcet them talk to the unmentionables.

I don't know Ted except for the 20 minutes I spent on the phone with him.

My interruption is he was a very talented craftsman (poor businessman) who stayed at it too long. I don't believe he could have stayed in business for 53 years if he was a crook. Without a 401k plan, I think he stayed at it to pay some bills while hoping someone would buy his equipment. He had it listed for sale for years. It can't be easy for guys who have all their capital tied up in machines & material.

Again, I don't know the whole story; and I'm not defending their poor business practices; but I don't believe their actions were calculated. I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt.

I just hope this gets resolved for lb404 so we can remember Ted for his craftsmanship and not his poor business skills.

Now, I'll take Red's advice and keep my mouth shut.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
One thing for sure about the custom gun trade that Ive discovered from my personal experience over some decades is:,
when you initiate communication to make your money available to them, they will often offer swift communication and give you all sorts of impressions of what service and delivery times you can reasonably expect to receive.

However when things don't go to plan and your still waiting on your order,it can be a complete reversal, communication can be poor or non-existent from their end.

Those that have a well proven good record/reputation normally maintain it.
Those that don't have a good record are very likely to keep that poor reputation.
In my experience, time has proven that statement to be mostly true.
I purchased my first Blackburn BM units over 20yrs ago from a custom smith.
...I was fortunate in that he had them arrive not long before, after he had already suffered some 2yrs delay in prepaid delivery.

I will say that Ted Blackburn was generous with his time/helpful with advice when discussing issues on custom rifles, but so have other people who also managed to maintain a reputation for delivering their product as indicated.

Seems to me that Ted should have spent more time devoted to production than he did to "BENCH RACING" and visiting with customers or not even customer but guys that just wanted to converse. I realize that after fifty three years in the industry of custom parts you get tired or for lack of a better term "burned out." There comes a time to say "I quit, getting old and tired and I just quit" and then you also quit accepting funds for work that you don't have the gumption to complete. I thought highly of Ted and Maggie, but as things come to light I acquired this bad taste in my mouth about this Craftsman and his daughter. What a shame and what a legacy to leave behind. He would have been known as a pioneer like old Al Freeland with his scope stands. Just a sorry time in the industry to see this transpire.

I witnessed a transaction between Ted and Maggie and a customer that I was building a custom stock for. Entire transaction resembled a "Chinease Firedrill" reqiring almost a year to conclude with excuses like "be out next week", "shipped to the wrong address", "who are you again?" and in the end the customer received something other than what he ordered but gave up because he expressed "one in the hand better than one in never-never land". What a bunch of bull caca.