I found a small ring 98 mauser today.
Its a little hard to identify. It is already sporterized and looks like who ever did the sporterizing new what they were doing.
With the weaver bases on it and the scope ,the only markings I could see was the serial number on the reciever.
It is a 7mm mauser and has the standard bolt shroud and buhler style safty you see on most mauser sporters.
There is a miitary thumb cut on the reciever.
The asking price of 400.00 seems prety fair to me.
Are thre any military small ring 98s a guy should avoid ?
As I understand it, there are not so many around. I have seen mexican FNs, and commercial huskys. But thats about all iv,e seen. Iknow there were some small ring turks (or was persions) But I can't recall who made them or having ever seen one ?
It seems to me a guy could not go to far wrong with this.
the seller is a qualified gunsmith with a decnt reputation.
Is there any thing you can think of I should check for before I buy this old mauser ?
thatnks in advance...tj3006
Ps, I just came from the eye DR, and can't see squat so forgive if this post looks like a 1st grader did it.
I am generly at least a 6th grader in print...tj3006

I do not know of any especially if it was in original chamber.
A while back seems to me that there was an issue with higher presure rounds in the small ring mausers. I would have ait looked at and would load on the low old 7x57 load data
dave

Thomas,

I think there are military small ring 98s with small ring threads (e.g., Mex 1910, 1936), and military small ring 98s with large ring threads (Kar98a?). By large and small ring threads I mean the diameter of the threaded shank.

I have read here that the latter are not recommended for high pressure rounds/loads.

I think you may be able to tell by the action length. The reference material in gunsmithing should have that info.

David

Thanks david & Hi vel,
I went ahead and bought the rifle. I took it out of the stock and removed the scope bases , and I can't find a mark on it.
I stuck a dummy cartridke in it that I use to practice fast reloasd in my #1 ruger 7X57.
And while it chambers fine itse a little long for the magazine. Probably a good thing cause it might be a bad thing to mix them up.
I will do a serch on small ring mausers and see what I can find out...tj3006

DKim: I'd sure be intresed where you read about high pressure in small ring action...kind of a broad brush...ie. G 33-40 and VZ 33's, while small ring, can be safely be converted to 270...which, of course, is a plenty high pressure round...Kimber (the old company) was chambering 95's for the243...which is a REALLY high pressure round...Now...I'd personally be a little leary of theconversion though I never heard of any mishaps

I did my little search.
And here is what I came up with. using the lenth of the action from tang to front of shank, I got 8.50. And the screw holes, a little hard to measure exactly with out taking it out of the stock again were just over 7.5. Leads me to belive I have a mexican mauser.
I am not quite ready to go to the bamnk with that just yet , it could be a turk or even a commercial of some kind but I doubt the latter.
If there ever was a stripper clip slot its been milled out.
The bore is very good and it has a timney trigger and a steel tube K-4 weaver in weaver mounts.
barrel is 22 inches and taperd from just ahead of the shank to .595 at the muzle tip.
Should make a dandy deer rig as is.
I womder if the barrel is a trimed and turned down wilitary or a replacment.
I got the info about the action length and hole spacing from hoosier gun works...tj3006
PS I just tried to load some 06 rounds into the mag and they will not fit.
Probably helps to confirm my mex theory.
A turk would likly not have been chamberd in 7X57, but this one may have been an 8X at one time.
its kind of fun playing dective though...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
DKim: I'd sure be intresed where you read about high pressure in small ring action...kind of a broad brush...ie. G 33-40 and VZ 33's, while small ring, can be safely be converted to 270...which, of course, is a plenty high pressure round...Kimber (the old company) was chambering 95's for the243...which is a REALLY high pressure round...Now...I'd personally be a little leary of theconversion though I never heard of any mishaps

Duane,

The way I read DKim's post was that one ought to avoid the Small Ring 98's which utilized large ring threads, commonly known as the Kar of WWI vintage. I concur with his thinking.

I did not take his post to mean one should avoid the Small Ring 98's that you mentioned.

As for the Kimber 96's done up in .243 and .308, well, I had a bunch come through and many had setback. Seems I recall more on the German made receivers than the Swede made. Not a conversion I would personally do.

Not really surprising...but that's what makes the Mauser's so safe..they will set back until they become unworkable. While I kind of avoid the small ring/large thread..I wonder if there has been any studies or experience in depth.

quote:

Originally posted by rem721:

As for the Kimber 96's done up in .243 and .308, well, I had a bunch come through and many had setback. Seems I recall more on the German made receivers than the Swede made. Not a conversion I would personally do.

I often wonder about that. I bought one of those Kimbers when they came out but I was leery of the modern rounds in that action so I stayed with the 6.5x55. If I remember it saved me about $100 because they used the original barrels, turned down and shortened. Mine's a very accurate gun.

It was common practice in WWI for the field armorer to make their rounds gaging the KARs and pulling from service those that exhibited receiver stretch (failed the gage test). Sort of the way they quietly pulled low number springfields out of service when they came in for repairs.

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:

quote:

Originally posted by rem721:

As for the Kimber 96's done up in .243 and .308, well, I had a bunch come through and many had setback. Seems I recall more on the German made receivers than the Swede made. Not a conversion I would personally do.

I often wonder about that. I bought one of those Kimbers when they came out but I was leery of the modern rounds in that action so I stayed with the 6.5x55. If I remember it saved me about $100 because they used the original barrels, turned down and shortened. Mine's a very accurate gun.

I think you made the right choice. With proper care that rifle will last your grandkids a longtime. And, those Swede barrels have a deserved reputation for accuracy. Many don't like the stepped barrels but for the price the Kimbers were/are selling for it was/is a darn good deal for a rifle usually capable of above average accuracy.

Well,
From what I just read on the reference matierial section here on AR , and some other places. I am prety much sure I have a 1910 mex.
It looks as though the bolt schroud has been changed out , but the dimensions seem to match
I will re read it tommorow with the action on my lap and check some of the other dimensions. I have alredy loaded up a few rounds for it.
Lenght of mag restricts the OAL more than the throat does, but that is ok.
I have learned over the years that many rifles don't seem to mind having the bullets a long ways from the lands. I would like to know if it was made in mexico or if it is an FN. But with no markings i don't like my odds.
It may well be a commercial of some kind but it has a thumb cut so i doubt it.
...tj3006

I was referring to small ring 98s with large ring barrels. I only passed on what i have read and will admit I have no personal experience with the matter.

Here is such a thread:


AR Thread

David

I have a sporterized Kar98. On the left side of the receiver it is stamped: Kar.98. Mine is 7x57, cut down military barrel at 19 inches, re-crowned, in a tiny walnut stock, Timney trigger with Buehler safety. I load soft 7x57 rounds for it. I killed my buck with it last year, so the low pressure rounds must not be a problem. It feeds like shit through a goose, easy bolt lift, extracts/ejects every time. I love it. Sure wish I had some kind of measurement for the front ring stretch. The gun weighs half a pound more than nothing and shoots about 1.5" groups. IIRC, the receiver length dimension is the same as Model 98s, no? Pretty sure the bottom metal interchanges, too.

MKane160

Don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a similar rifle I have never been able to identify.
It is a custom from the 1950's. I bought it in a shop between Huntington and Charleston WV, and it was barreled by Douglas. The barrel is marked as such, and was likely done at their facility in Charleston. It was fitted to some sort of early commercial large rin mauser stock, with the ring area glass bedded. The action has some light engraving, sights and sling swivels are soldered on, and a double set trigger installed. It is in 257 Roberts.

The action is a small ring. It is a small barrel shank action, definitely not a Kar98 (I have one and have compared). The other dimensions are consistent with a typical full length 98. It is too long for a Mexican etc. I would have sworn it was a VZ33, but the ring and the action are the same diameter, and it doesn't have the sculpting around the clip slot or lightening cuts under the wood. It is profiled like a Kar98, which it isn't. Anyone have a clue as to its origin? I have looked for quite a while and never found anything which matches. It appears that everything was ground off the reciever to apply the engraving so there are no markings to give a clue.