What is the best resource for information on adjusting a Model 70 (New Haven) trigger? I do not have a user manual for this gun.

EDIT: Okay, here is the problem....

I thought I had the adjustment figured out. I have it breaking at 4 lbs (which is quite a bit heavier than I would like). When I put the action back into the stock and hit the butt on the floor, the hammer fires EVERY TIME!!

I've never experienced this problem before. I have numerous rifles with 1.5 to 2.5 lb triggers and you can bang them on the floor all day long without the hammer dropping.

What the hell is going on?!?!?! I want this gun to break at 2.5 lbs if at all possible...

I'm at work and don't have my stuff but if you do a search(web and this forum) you will find several different write-ups and illustrations. It seems to me there was a very well done one on Snipers Hide a few years ago that I saved but it certainly isn't the only one available.

link to thread

snipercountry link

Assuming your talking about the original M-70 trigger, the book "Bolt Action Rifles" by Frank DeHaas has very good information about adjusting the trigger.

Okay, here is the problem....

I thought I had the adjustment figured out. I have it breaking at 4 lbs (which is quite a bit heavier than I would like). When I put the action back into the stock and hit the butt on the floor, the hammer fires EVERY TIME!!

I've never experienced this problem before. I have numerous rifles with 1.5 to 2.5 lb triggers and you can bang them on the floor all day long without the hammer dropping.

What the hell is going on?!?!?! I want this gun to break at 2.5 lbs if at all possible...

You are not going to be able to safely adjust the stock M70 trigger to 2 1/2 lbs without some modification. This is a job best left to the experts.

Sear engagement may be to minimal, but it could also be the spring isn't keeping enough tension.
I would recommend doing some polishing to the contact surfaces, but also to the pivot points. Break the edge of the sear just a bit. Then set the pull weight.
Polishing will make it feel better than just a low pull weight. During installation be sure the torques on the screws aren't causeing some binding & misalignment somehow. Sometimes it's trial & error to get it just right.

There may be some contact between the trigger ad stock or trigger guard, Check that out first. When I do a trigger job on a M70, I discard the OEM spring; way too coarse. I replace it with a longer and more tender one along with some judicial touch-ups.

So is it unreasonable to expect a trigger pull of less than 4 lbs. without the "bump test" causing the hammer to drop?

That just doesn't sound correct to me. Something must not be quite right....surely the stock trigger can be safely adjusted below 4 lbs.

look at the posts & you'll see. 1st the sear engagement it to small, then read jim kobes way. if it doesn't come in clear then reread westpacs

It is NOT a hammer...

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
It is NOT a hammer...

Well please forgive my ignorance....I apologize for not knowing the proper term. Honestly though, I don't give a damn what it's called....I just want it to work properly.

Sear engagement. Then focus on the spring for weight of pull.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Sear engagement. Then focus on the spring for weight of pull.

So is a sear engagement issue a simple "fix"....or do I need to take it to a smith?

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
So is a sear engagement issue a simple "fix"....or do I need to take it to a smith?

Probably not. Send it to someone who can also determine of the trigger needs to be re-pinned and the safety needs to be timed. You can jack with the sear engagement and pull weight on an M70 trigger all you want but if the entire system isn't done as a whole it won't be satisfactory.

You are right. Bumping a rifle butt should not make it go off. I'd send it to Tip Burns over in Canyon Lake or take it down to Dustin Mounts in Houston.

Rusty, Tip Burns won't adjust a trigger below 3 to 3.5#,had a friend took two older 700's there to get something done to them,they both had 2# pulls,he took out the old springs and put in the newer ones set at 3.5#,said he threw away the old springs.Lost a customer there!!Best person i ever know to adjust old 70 triggers is Roy Finch in Blanco Tx.,not a gun shop,but has worked on more model 70's than he can remember.

quote:

Originally posted by wtb:
Rusty, Tip Burns won't adjust a trigger below 3 to 3.5#. . .

I wouldn't want one lighter than 3# myself!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

quote:

Originally posted by wtb:
Rusty, Tip Burns won't adjust a trigger below 3 to 3.5#. . .

I wouldn't want one lighter than 3# myself!

Rusty,

Thanks for the info on Tip and Dustin.

I really want this gun at 2.5 lbs. It should not be a safety issue. Like I said earlier I have probably a half dozen rifles with triggers between 1.5 and 2.5 lbs without having this issue. This is my only Mod. 70 so I have not dealt with this before. Is this just a problem with the Mod. 70 trigger design? And would I be better off just replacing the trigger?

If so, what are some quality aftermarket triggers for a Mod. 70 that will allow for safe adjustment down to 2.5 lbs? (and also allow me to keep the 3-position safety)

Sounds to me like the sear angle and engagement needs work. The sear should NOT trip when the butt is slammed on the floor, period, full stop and end of discussion! If the pull weight is 4 lbs and the sear trips then THE FIRST place I'd look is the sear angle(s), 'cause I'd bet that the angles are all wrong.

The M70 trigger is only semi-adjustable at best, and one of the problem areas is the actual sear engagement itself.

As mentioned above, the M70 system operates as a SYSTEM, and so all the parts need to operate in conjunction with each other. For that reason I'd DEFINITELY take it to someone who KNOWS M70 triggers!

As you say, achieving a 2.5-lb pull should not be a problem for a GOOD smith.
Regards, Joe

Wade, I can tell you are just plain pissed. Calm down and just take it to a smith. It will cost less than a new, different trigger and you will get what you want. All of the advice above is really good. Funny story...I had a similar problem several years ago and sent the rifle back to Winchester since they surprisingly said they would adjust it from the 8# it was down to the 3# I wanted. I got a call a week later saying that the rifle was in transit back to me, but the trigger still was not right and to send it back as soon as I got it, on their dime. They said they found they had the wrong spring in it. When I got it the next day, I tried it and sure enough, wrong spring....it was the best 10 OUNCE trigger pull I ever had on a rifle! I just adjusted it a little heavier and kept it.

Instead of going to a gunsmith, just replace the trigger with a Timney, they're great triggers and most of my rifles have them.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx...ACTION-RIFLE-TRIGGER

quote:

Instead of going to a gunsmith, just replace the trigger with a Timney, they're great triggers and most of my rifles have them.

If I really wanted a sub 3# trigger on a M70 I would go the Timney route.

The drop test is good and if it goes off them you have a problem. If a gunsmith doesn't do a drop test I would not use him to adjust a trigger. You can't simply loosen the spring to reduce trigger pull on a model 70. Tighen it back up until the drop test fails to fire it. Have someone that knows what they are doing adjust it. I'm not going to tell you how to do it. You can with proper adjustment make a model 70 trigger very crisp and light.

IMO a Timney is a questionable solution to an easily-solvable problem. Simply substituting another trigger into an M70, ANY M70, is frequently not quite that simple, and anyone who thinks so is mistaken. The new trigger will have to be checked/adjusted for a proper and sufficient safety-to-striker-withdrawal dimension, as pointed out above by another poster.

If you want a good reliable and safe 2.5 lb pull then take it to someone who KNOWS M70s, like Jim Kobe.

If you want the very best trigger for your M70, you'll hafta haunt fleabay and Gunbroker to look for a Canjar. They're no longer made but are absolutely light-years ahead of a Timney.

IMO FWIW:
Dayton-Traister = Kia or other El Cheapo
Timney = Chevrolet or other mid-range
Canjar = Lexus, Cadillac, Volvo
Jewell or target trigger = Ferrari, Bugatti

IMO a smith who doesn't do several drop tests is no smith AT ALL!
Regards, Joe

FWIW, I bought a M-70 from Jim Kobe that he worked over and I can vouch for the trigger work.

The "old" model 70 trigger is among the best in the world. Only the two stages (commercial interwar Mauser and national Match 03) are better (and safer).
For a hunting rifle 3 pounds is just what you want. If your 70 is for varmints or sniping you may want to look at the aftermarket.
Nice to see two stage triggers are making a comeback in the AR match world. Maybe today's hunters will have an equal awakening.
If is failing the "drop test" take everything apart, coat it with dyechem and you'll see what is wrong.

I have several Model 7o rifles and all have triggers of 3 lb or a little less on one. All have been done by gunsmiths so that is the route I would take. All of them pass the bump test also.

BigB

My .375 did that AFTER a local smith did the trigger!

Mark Penrod fixed it before I took it to Africa.

It doesn't do that anymore.

I have gotten my other M70s down to 4 or a bit less with no problem with the trigger bumping off.

I will try to lighten my M70 triggers myself, but if I feel they are unsafe (cant bump them or whatever) off they go.

Ah, the joys of a factory produced mass trigger, even if it is the best one.

Quit messing around with something as important as a trigger...especially since you seem to be having trouble. Send it to Mark Penrod as Duckear mentions. Mark is a genius when it comes to most all triggers but especially the Model 70. He recuts the angles in a jig of his own making and properly hardens and adjusts all the parts to give you the best trigger you have ever used. Do it, you won't be dissapointed.

Paul

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Reed:
Quit messing around with something as important as a trigger...especially since you seem to be having trouble. Send it to Mark Penrod as Duckear mentions. Mark is a genius when it comes to most all triggers but especially the Model 70. He recuts the angles in a jig of his own making and properly hardens and adjusts all the parts to give you the best trigger you have ever used. Do it, you won't be dissapointed.

Paul

Contact info?

Eland Slayer,

In re-reading my original post my apologies if I sounded harsh in my original reply...I went down the same path you did fussing with the trigger until I had Mark work over my Model 70 300 Weatherby before my first trip to Africa in 2003. He times the safety, fixes the trigger and will look at the bolt and lockup etc and fix that if needed (above the cost of a trigger job). He rebarreled my rifle and did the full action work including the trigger and after 9 years of use the trigger is the same as the day I got it back. I became convinced of the true value of a competent gunsmith and have never looked back despite cost, hassle with shipping etc.

Good luck,
Paul


Penrod Precision - Mark Penrod
312 College Ave.m N Manchester, IN 46962
Phone: 260-982-8385

My My Mark Penrod Model 70 trigger is as good as it gets. I would guess it between 2.5-3lbs and it breaks as good as any trigger I've owned or used.

I don't see anything wrong with a Rifle Basix trigger for the M-70. (New Haven)
It's simple, in-expensive, and fully adjustable.
I put one on a M-70 that had a short/weak tension spring that wouldn't let me get under 4.5# consistantly.

To distill the best M70 trigger investment to a word... Penrod

How light do you want it to break again? Best for real light clean breaks is a jewel. I wish Canjar was still around but that ship has sailed unless you get lucky and find one. Timney is my next choice. In reality aftermarket your choices are Jewel or Timney. To get the proper sear engagement can be a bit tricky on the original M70 and still get clean light break. I have only done 4 or 5 but have had to replace the spring on all of them. For my money I would replace the trigger with a Timney or a Jewel. Jewel is better IMO but you really do not need something that can go that light. If you find that it is beyond your skill set send it to any of the gunsmiths the group has already mentioned. I have also sent some away because I could not get them quite right. When your frustration level reaches a certain point it is worth the extra money and peace of mind. It really isn't very expensive to have done anyway. However, if you are like me it becomes a challenge and I typically will not give up no matter what. Not necessarily the smartest route but human nature I guess. Good luck on your project.

Quite frankly my Penrod worked Model 70 trigger is better than any Jewell I've owned.

It is not possible to adjust any m70 trigger to below 4pound, and having it safely pass a 2ft bumptest.
The cause is in the design of the trigger itself. The trigger is so poorly ballanced that any m70 trigger will let go if exposed to a high enough bump test

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
It is not possible to adjust any m70 trigger to below 4pound, and having it safely pass a 2ft bumptest.
The cause is in the design of the trigger itself. The trigger is so poorly ballanced that any m70 trigger will let go if exposed to a high enough bump test

No disrespect or flames intended, but I disagree.

I personally don't care too much for the original M70 design, but it's a relatively good one in comparison to some others. The exact sear angles and surface finishes are critical, as is the exact sear engagement dimension. These must be adjusted to fit one another along with the safety lever, and the factory dimensions are OK but not optimum for every rifle. Thus hand-fitting is sometimes/often required, and during that hand-fitting it's easier for a good smith to achieve an optimum fitup that wouldn't require a hard pull.

Furthermore a 2-ft drop test with a steel buttplate onto a concrete surface will sometimes result in a split stock. Sure, any M70 sear will release if subjected to a high-enough shock load! The simple inertial load of the weight of the trigger blade will become more than the 2.5 lbs at a high enough shock load, that's true of ANY trigger design! But I will have to admit that the moment arm of the relatively long M70 trigger makes it more likely to move at a lower shock load than many others.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, a good engineering analysis with calcs might show that you are indeed right. I'm just saying that in my experience and opinion, a good smith can achieve a safe 2.5-lb M70 pull when measured with an appropriate(?!) drop test.
Regards, Joe