When Winchester returned to the pre-64 bolt design in the M70 did they use the exact design that they had used in the true pre-64's? If there are differences, what are they? Which DESIGN do you feel is better? I only ask for opinions on the DESIGN, because I am aware of people's feelings on recent workmanship coming from Winchester!

Thanks,
Bob

The newer Winchesters takes a different extractor slot that's much easier to cut. Other than that there's nothing but workmanship, tolorences, and metallurgy that's different that I know of.

I have custom rifles built on both pre-64 and current "Classic" Model 70 actions, and I've been a confirmed Model 70 fan for the last twenty-five years.

Pre-64 pros:
1) Generally higher-quality and workmanship on an out-of-box basis.
2) Real spring-steel extractor.
3) Better magazine box system, especially for the .30-06 and H&H cartridge classes.
4) Slightly shorter OAL, which is better if you're building something like a .30-06 or .270.

Pre-64 cons:
1) Inferior gas handling system.
2) Inferior heat-treating (some actions are warped, and some are too hard).
3) Too long for certain cartridges (like the .308)
4) Could be slightly longer for other cartridges (like the .416 Remington)

"CLassic" pros:
1) Superior gas handling system.
2) True short action availability.
3) Better steels and heat-treating
4) Slightly longer length of standard receiver works better for belted magnums.

"Classic" cons:
1) Extractor is not a true milled, spring-steel extractor (when it bends, it STAYS that way!)
2) Pins are of inferior quality.
3) Magazine system not optimal for .270/.30-06 class or long belted (i.e. H&H) magnum class cartridges.
4) Crude, cheap bottom-metal (potmetal guards in many cases).
5) Bolt handle knurling is a dishwasher-style cosmetic touch.

Conclusions:

I prefer the pre-64 action if I'm building a .30-06 or .270, plus the pre-64 is a better out-of-the-box rifle, period, especially if you want the best quality rifle for the money to hunt with that's non-custom. As good as they were, and contrary to popular belief, these rifles weren't put together by little old men in angel costumes, and they'll still need to be reworked to get the most out of them, especially if you're building a custom rifle.

I prefer the "Classic" action if I'm building a belted-magnum. With this action, the more work and correct replacement parts you put into it, the better it gets, and by a huge margin. When I have one built, the only parts retained are the receiver, bolt body, trigger group, and firing pin assembly: The extractor, pins, magazine system, and bottom metal are replaced. I have several excellent custom rifles built on the "Classic" action, and everyone who examines these rifles is astounded at what can be done with them, and what a difference there is in terms of cosmetics, function, and performance when an expert who truly understands the action works it over.

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[ 01-26-2003, 19:46: Message edited by: allen day ]

I was just going over a "classic" stainless last night. It came in the box new with rust (superficial). Much of the metalwork looks as if was done by a Moroccan street vendor.

The post 64 M70 Classic does not have the forged bolt that the pre 64 does. This is a drastic departure from common sense. I would suppose that any expensive custom rifle would have a new bolt as the one that comes with the rifle is copper brazed together.

I have seen these parts out for assembly as the brazing is farmed out. They just throw a bunch in a shop box with the copper rings on them and a vendor puts them in and furnace and heats them up to melt the copper braze.

I wonder if when you closed the bolt and the braze broke that the locking lugs would turn? I am quite sure that it would fire! You always have the bolt handle for a third safety lug.

The rear of the bolt assembly seems to be a casting. I think the front is a screw machine product.