Is it SR, LR thread "standard length", SR thread "standard length", or is it SR "Intermediate length"

Small Ring Receiver, Small Ring Barrel Thread, Standard Length.

But what makes it desirable is that tyhe action has a lightening cut milled in each side of the action under the wood line, and the left side of the reciever between the front and rear bridges is milled thin. THis was done to save weight, as well as having a hollow bolt handle. It makes for a trim and light rifle. THis is why folks want the G 33/40 over the other small rings.

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Originally posted by Marc_Stokeld:
But what makes it desirable is that tyhe action has a lightening cut milled in each side of the action under the wood line, and the left side of the reciever between the front and rear bridges is milled thin. THis was done to save weight, as well as having a hollow bolt handle. It makes for a trim and light rifle. THis is why folks want the G 33/40 over the other small rings.

Could all this be done by a competent gunsmith to a Non-G33/40 action, namely something easier to find?

Super Bon Bon

The only other standard length small ring (receiver and thread) 98 is the commercial version of the same action, the 21/22 series. You can't turn a large ring into a small ring without weakening it. Browning tried it, and ended up restricting the cartridges to only the .243 and the .308.

The G33/40 had the receiver lightened with mill cuts because the rifle used the heavy military stocks, and the only way to save weight was to remove it from the action. The commercial version used light "toothpick" stocks, so Brno probably felt that further milling of the receiver was not needed.

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You can't turn a large ring into a small ring without weakening it. Browning tried it, and ended up restricting the cartridges to only the .243 and the .308.

Hmm.... What about the M38 Turkish?

That is LR W/SR thread. Turning down the front receiver ring to SR OD should not be any weaker than a regular SR action.

Yes, you can take a Large ring/small thread action and turn it into a copy of a G 33/40. If you are asking this, I can only assume you are not capable of doing the work your self. That means you will have to pay some one to do it, and pay you will do! By the time you get through pating some one to make these mods, you will have a lot of money in the action. A whole lot of money.

The M38 Turk is a general term that refers to a broad range of rifles built or rebuilt to Turkish standards (whatever that means).

To the best of my knowledge, the LR/ST models were all built in Turkey, using Turkish steel. Nearly all of these then saw service in the Turkish military, using Turkish corrosive ammo.
(There are some surviving examples in unissued condition, but they are rare).

Given the above information, this action would not be my first choice for a lot of expensive milling work. I know there are some nice custom rifles that have been built as such, but the metallurgy is too questionable for me. Even with proper re-heat treatment.

Here is link with some good info at the bottom, along with some useful links on the LR/ST Turk.

M38 Turk

No offense Kurt, I respect your knowledge of subjects Mauser and I am no expert in any sense. One would think Browning (FN) was well aware of the limitations of the design. That the decision was an economical one not to tool up to small ring threads for the small numbers of lightweight sales to American hunters-- and the chosen calibers figured into the lightweight mix. The later Sakos probably made more sense.

Too, particularly with the more advanced metallugy of the late fifties, I would think the pressure would be borne by the barrel, and those two calibers were not exactly low intensity at the time.

All: Small thread, large ring Turk made turk '98s. Doing the Browning thing would seem to make sense, but for one thing. The thread relief cut in the large thread is the clearance for the end of the Extractor side lug
raceway slotting operation. Every one of these turks that I have examined had a relief of very near the thread undercut diameter used for a regular large thread receiver. This should be carefully examined, measured and those numbers compared with the anticipated reduction in ring diameter to determine actual wall thickness of the receiver at THAT point. None of the receivers I checked- about 30 some odd- Rockwelled less than Rc 30 and most were in the high thirties with a few above 40 c. When the chambered barrel is screwed in and the headspace is on the plus side, instead of facing the end of the barrel to pick up a few thousandths,the fitter may have really scrunched on the wrench to wind the barrel in to pick this ammount up. That would stress that metal of the receiver between the threads and the "C"ring face by stretching it. Somewhere down the road timewise, the result could be having a 2 piece receiver, the major part ending at the "C" ring and the sepearted piece a nice threaded collar on the barrel. On the late WW-I German small ring Large thread receivers this end of thread undercut was reduced and a milling cut with a small "wheel"- keyseat type cutter was used at what would be end of the extractor slot to provide relief for end of the extractor slot cutting operation.
The WW-I receivers did not completely seperate, but the break was easily seen from one side of the stock to the other on those that failed of the earlier made receivers.

KurtC;

Hey thanks for publishing that "M38 Turk" link.

I really don't mess with the "Turks" but I do have three 98Ks two VZ500s and I just picked up a 98/29 Persian.

Most all of the info provided can be applied to other 98 based actions. I especially like the homemade tools and jigs etc.

I too am not impressed with the "Turkish" action quality. The 98/29 action I just got is probably the best "Milsurp" I have ever seen and in many ways it is better quality than the Comercial VZ500 actions.

I bookmarked that site for future referance.

Thanks again.

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Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
KurtC;

The 98/29 action I just got is probably the best "Milsurp" I have ever seen and in many ways it is better quality than the Comercial VZ500 actions.

Did you recently order it from samco? I've been looking at those and wondered what their condition (upon arrival) was like.

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Did you recently order it from samco? I've been looking at those and wondered what their condition (upon arrival) was like

Yep, SAMCO.

The condition is what I consider unused, perhaps unissued. There was no trace of copper in the bore and all bluing was 100% including the muzzle.

The bore and chamber are extremly bright and shiney with the edges of the lands being sharp and distinct. The throat has no erosion.

There was some slight discoloration on spots where there was no bluing, places where the cosmoline became dried out. The rear sight scale was missing.

Be warned that the cosmoline was a real bear to get off!