I need some recommendations on hydro dipping. I need a place that does quality dipping with an attention to detail.
Thanks,

James

What is it? From the name, it is dipping something into water.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
What is it? From the name, it is dipping something into water.

It's like a painting/coating process that's like a decal for different camo patterns, etc.

http://www.hydrodip.com/

yes hydro dipping is very popular - find a law firm and dip every lawyers head in a bucket of water for a minimum of 5 minutes

I see now; it's for lawyers and similar forms of vermin.
Water Transfer Printing? I guess I'm too old to understand it for rifle stocks. I just like wood, and one color paint. Not too fond of black; OD, and Earth Brown; that's about it. I'll keep the artsy crafty projects on my wall. (Ok, not even there)

It's the very latest Teflon coat, powder coat, koaty coat, cera coat, painty coat (DO ANYTHING TO AVOID THE COST OF BLUING BY DIY IN YOUR BASEMENT) gun coating. All you need is one of the kits, a tub full of luke warm water and the ability to shoot a clear coat afterward. I have already had about 3 guys trying to peddle the stuff to me who have weekend startup operations in their garages. I've seen it done and it's pretty basic. It all comes down to the topcoat. It you give it 2 or 3 coats of Endura or Imron afterwords it's just a tough as Imron or Endura. You need an axe to get it off. If you top coat it with Trem-clad clear it lasts until you rub it on your jeans or spill some Hoppes #9 on it.

The one guy is the same guy who was trying to peddle Cera-coat to me last year. I guess that didn't fly, but this new stuff is guaranteed against shark bite, bear attack and children under 4. Or so he claims. He wouldn't tell me what his top coat was so I'm suspecting Trem-clad, clear, shaky can rust paint. I will not be using his services.

Well, I was gonna reply earlier that the OP wouldn't get any serious replies on this forum cause most of the 'smiths around here weren't into all that sort of stuff- they're sort of purists in that way.

I guess I was right about that, but I'd not go that route either.

Of course, some here probably think putting a Rosewood forend tip on a Mauser stock is an abomination....of which I am guilty.

Someone will poke their head out and give the OP a reasonable reply....be patient.

Black Ice Coatings does good work for both the hydro dipping and Teflon coating.

For those not familiar, think the camo finish on shotguns, especially Mossberg as well as every compound bow manufacturer I can think of.

quote:

Originally posted by Dulltool17:
Someone will poke their head out and give the OP a reasonable reply....be patient.

I dunno how far it's advanced down in the USA. But here, everyone is still in the tinkering stage with hydro dipping firearms. Yes, there are some firms that have been doing it on hockey helmets, motorcycles and automotive parts for some time. They also do automotive painting and have paint booths, walk in cure ovens and electrostatic paint application equipment. These outfits do very nice work. The down side is you need special permits here to handle firearms at the commercial level and of course as soon as your insurer hears the word: "GUN" your rates go up $4,000 per year. So the guys who are in the know of such wondrous voodoo, want nothing to do with us and our shooty sticks! Short of that, the stuff works if the proper automotive clear coat is used. It wears as well as any automotive paint.

Ah, ok, Mossbergs and compound bows.
I get it.

A couple decades back, I bought a Benelli shotgun that came with the camouflage coating. After a few years of hard hunting it turned white, then wore off. I blasted it all off, and had the metal parkerized.

Now I have a Benelli with the bluing worn off, and the anodizing on the receiver pretty worn as well. I will have it blasted and have it coated and cooked with dirt colored Cerakote elite. That stuff is more durable than the standard cerakote.

Have a pistol with the finish worn off the slide from Kydex holster wearr. That will get the steam rust blue treatment. Re-anodizing the frame is not cheap, but I'll look into that anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Ah, ok, Mossbergs and compound bows.
I get it.

Wow people really? Is this what we have to offer someone on this forum ? One smart ass answer after another I truly thought the people here were better than this.
It is a gun finish, bow finish, ATV finish, motorcycle helmet finish, you name it you can hydro dip it.
Yeah I know it's not Walnut and Blue so it doesn't meet with your approval but it is a legitimate firearms finish so the OP asked the question in this forum.
Firearms manufacturers are using it on all kinds of barrels and stocks so its not a "one off."

This Gunsmithing forum is dominated by 2 individuals who are full of useful information a veritable fount of knowledge but full of absolutely off putting smart ass answers at times that embarrass me to be a part of.
People come on here seeking answers to real questions and to get slammed for it is absolute bullshit guys, wake up it ain't the 1960's there are black rifles and synthetic rifles and ceramic coating and hydro dips, all kinds of stuff besides "Blue and Walnut"

I'm sure you guys had an Aunt or a Grandma that told you "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all", well it still rings true. Maybe if you don't have something to contribute to the thread don't tear it to shreds merely for your post count.

Ok, Maybe I should have made my self a little clearer.

I have two custom McMillan carbon edge stocks. Stocks at dealer price was about $600.00 each unpainted. Not your normal Walmart or Mossberg. Both rifles are custom built as per customers specs. They only wanted camo so that is what they get as they are paying the bill.

Now to the question. I have used a lot of different dipping companies. Surprising Bell and Carlson was the best before the got big time with the gun companies and quit the little guy about 10 years ago. Other companies will do 1 or 2 excellent jobs and the next will be $hitt.

I am looking for a place that I can use that does first class work every time with no excuses. Just that simple.

James

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Ah, ok, Mossbergs and compound bows.
I get it.

Wow people really? Is this what we have to offer someone on this forum ? One smart ass answer after another I truly thought the people here were better than this.
It is a gun finish, bow finish, ATV finish, motorcycle helmet finish, you name it you can hydro dip it.
Yeah I know it's not Walnut and Blue so it doesn't meet with your approval but it is a legitimate firearms finish so the OP asked the question in this forum.
Firearms manufacturers are using it on all kinds of barrels and stocks so its not a "one off."

This Gunsmithing forum is dominated by 2 individuals who are full of useful information a veritable fount of knowledge but full of absolutely off putting smart ass answers at times that embarrass me to be a part of.
People come on here seeking answers to real questions and to get slammed for it is absolute bullshit guys, wake up it ain't the 1960's there are black rifles and synthetic rifles and ceramic coating and hydro dips, all kinds of stuff besides "Blue and Walnut"

I'm sure you guys had an Aunt or a Grandma that told you "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all", well it still rings true. Maybe if you don't have something to contribute to the thread don't tear it to shreds merely for your post count.

* * * * * * No problem. That ends today I'm tired of the emails and PMs anyway! * * * * * * *

J Bennett, I was serious about the Black Ice Coatings folks. They do absolutely fantastic work. Yes, they do other things as mentioned above like ATV parts, helmets, etc., but guns are their primary focus. The final finish is the same acrylic finish as auto top coats and lasts very well.

Black Ice Coatings

Dave, I really just think dpcd didn't understand what coating we were discussing. I didn't think he was bashing it.

Larry,

Thank you for your reply. I will give them a call.

James

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Ah, ok, Mossbergs and compound bows.
I get it.

Wow people really? Is this what we have to offer someone on this forum ? One smart ass answer after another I truly thought the people here were better than this.
It is a gun finish, bow finish, ATV finish, motorcycle helmet finish, you name it you can hydro dip it.
Yeah I know it's not Walnut and Blue so it doesn't meet with your approval but it is a legitimate firearms finish so the OP asked the question in this forum.
Firearms manufacturers are using it on all kinds of barrels and stocks so its not a "one off."

This Gunsmithing forum is dominated by 2 individuals who are full of useful information a veritable fount of knowledge but full of absolutely off putting smart ass answers at times that embarrass me to be a part of.
People come on here seeking answers to real questions and to get slammed for it is absolute bullshit guys, wake up it ain't the 1960's there are black rifles and synthetic rifles and ceramic coating and hydro dips, all kinds of stuff besides "Blue and Walnut"

I'm sure you guys had an Aunt or a Grandma that told you "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all", well it still rings true. Maybe if you don't have something to contribute to the thread don't tear it to shreds merely for your post count.

+.1

quote:

* * * * * * No problem. That ends today I'm tired of the emails and PMs anyway! * * * * * * *

I kind of like the acerbic give and take. I also don't mind if someone has no interest in doing things a certain way, or are adamantly opposed to it.

Speer Chucker, The water transfer process is fairly advanced down here in Baja Canada. The quality shops do seal the coating with a matte clear coat.

I don't doubt that once I achieve some facility at rust bluing, I will kick myself for not starting doing it thirty years ago. Same with grinding recoil pads. I took a big step into the unknown by buying a Brown Precision stock, fresh from the mold in 1983. After bondo/sand/bondo/sand/glue pad/grind pad/paint for two weeks of evenings. it looked and worked good, and well respectively.

Cerakote makes a matte clear coat that is a one part spray on. It will make your hydro dip job last forever.

I am covering a couple shotguns with Mossy Oak vinyl covering kits. I may have them top coated with the matte Cerakote clear coat, but I believe it will work especially well for your purposes.

Paint is paint is paint is paint. Whether it is Duracoat, Ceracoat, Krylon, hydrodip or something else. The big problem is with tolerances. All of these coatings interfere with tolerances between moving parts. If you can keep them away from interfaces they are OK. Otherwise they are a PITA. I constantly see guns in the shop with function issues due to camo coatings.

Here is the deal: If you don't move yourself and your gun around in the field you don't need a camo finish or camo attire. Do you really think a duck can discern a blued gun barrel from a camo barrel from 50 yds away? Especially if the camo pattern is at arms focus. How in the heck did our fore-fathers kill turkeys with out camo?

When I was young in the 1970's I hunted deer, duck, quail, dove, squirrel, and rabbit. I didn't move until the last second and never had an issue with spooking game unless I screwed up. Movement is the enemy. IT MUST BE SUPER SLOW. Many times I've had game walk or fly up on me because I was still. I hunted with a tan canvas game coat and blue jeans with a blued steel and walnut gun. All of this camo stuff is marketing.

You ought to be in the shop when we have to silver braze a mag tube in a Remington 1100/11-87 with a camo coating and see what happens! Total disaster.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Paint is paint is paint is paint. Whether it is Duracoat, Ceracoat, Krylon, hydrodip or something else. The big problem is with tolerances. All of these coatings interfere with tolerances between moving parts. If you can keep them away from interfaces they are OK. Otherwise they are a PITA. I constantly see guns in the shop with function issues due to camo coatings.

Here is the deal: If you don't move yourself and your gun around in the field you don't need a camo finish or camo attire. Do you really think a duck can discern a blued gun barrel from a camo barrel from 50 yds away? Especially if the camo pattern is at arms focus. How in the heck did our fore-fathers kill turkeys with out camo?

When I was young in the 1970's I hunted deer, duck, quail, dove, squirrel, and rabbit. I didn't move until the last second and never had an issue with spooking game unless I screwed up. Movement is the enemy. IT MUST BE SUPER SLOW. Many times I've had game walk or fly up on me because I was still. I hunted with a tan canvas game coat and blue jeans with a blued steel and walnut gun. All of this camo stuff is marketing.

You ought to be in the shop when we have to silver braze a mag tube in a Remington 1100/11-87 with a camo coating and see what happens! Total disaster.

I met a guy here locally that covered his Model 700 completely with rattle snake skin, what a mess to work on. Had to have a shot of snake bite medicine after wards

quote:

Paint is paint is paint is paint. Whether it is Duracoat, Ceracoat, Krylon, hydrodip or something else. The big problem is with tolerances. All of these coatings interfere with tolerances between moving parts. If you can keep them away from interfaces they are OK. Otherwise they are a PITA. I constantly see guns in the shop with function issues due to camo coatings.

Here is the deal: If you don't move yourself and your gun around in the field you don't need a camo finish or camo attire. Do you really think a duck can discern a blued gun barrel from a camo barrel from 50 yds away? Especially if the camo pattern is at arms focus. How in the heck did our fore-fathers kill turkeys with out camo?

When I was young in the 1970's I hunted deer, duck, quail, dove, squirrel, and rabbit. I didn't move until the last second and never had an issue with spooking game unless I screwed up. Movement is the enemy. IT MUST BE SUPER SLOW. Many times I've had game walk or fly up on me because I was still. I hunted with a tan canvas game coat and blue jeans with a blued steel and walnut gun. All of this camo stuff is marketing.

You ought to be in the shop when we have to silver braze a mag tube in a Remington 1100/11-87 with a camo coating and see what happens! Total disaster.

I became a believer in camouflage during 22 years in the military. Its main advantage is that it removes the image of straight lines, which don't occur in nature. It also removes black from the equation. Pure black does not occur in nature. The military would not invest so much money in camouflage if it did not work. Given that many animals have eyesight far superior to us mere humans, camouflage is especially useful.

The ultimate camouflage is being in shadow. Of course it should only be used on external surfaces that don't slide on or through other surfaces.

Not all paints are equal. Duracoat is awfully thick. Cerakote Elite flows on to a depth of 0.0005". It is also much more lubrous than any other surface finish. It does bond with the metal substrate. The only way to remove it is by blasting the area down to bare metal.

You are absolutely correct about keeping still, and not showing your human face. Camouflage makes a good approach better. It is no panacea for having ADHD like my cousin Gene.

Rust blue certainly beats the hell out of hot bluing. I don't know from experience, but it seems reasonable to me that any finish should be removed down to bare metal for brazing. Putting the vinyl on my Browning BPS, I leave the magazine tube its original matte finish to prevent any binding or interference.

One thing that is silly is the companies changing their camouflage patterns every few years. The original "Shadow Grass" camouflage for waterfowl hunting worked great. Now, "Shadow Grass" is on its fourth iteration. That is purely companies making money through marketing.

The only shotguns that I camouflage are those I use for waterfowl hunting. Not necessary for upland birds.

Time and technology always march on. The challenge is to apply new technologies where they make sense, and where they offer an actual improvement over the status quo. Powder coating is an obvious improvement over enamel pain for truck wheels, and epoxy polyurethanes are much more durable than boiled linseed oil. Kydex holsters are stronger, and lighter than their leather forerunners, but in a dusty, gritty environment, they will grind any metal finish off in short order. I'm inclined to think that leather may still be preferable, or at least a suede lining for the Kydex.

End of ramble.

Remember the old Browning stocks and the Wbt stocks, that crazed in time, its about anything dipped with a classy name, and Browning rusted many guns in an attempt to avoid contact with mettle and it failed are ruined the iron..WBY crazed and looked like cheap Bastogne, the runs were not pretty at all btw..

I have M1 super 90 after many years of hard hunting the camo dip is showing some wear.

It is a hard working shotgun and I am not gentle with in out of boats pickup trucks ect the finish has lasted great considering the beating it takes.

I don't know why any body any more would a non camo shot gun for water fowl turkeys ect.