I am going to be bedding a mauser into a wood stock, and would like some insight into the proper procedure for bedding around the guard screws.
On a mauser, when the action and bottom metal are screwed together without a stock, the round lug that is part of the forward end of the bottom metal makes contact with the small collar under the recoil lug. With these parts tight together there is about a .010" gap between the top of the magazine and the bottom of the receiver. Now my way of thinking is that I need a slight gap between the metal at the bottom of the recoil lug and the bottom metal to achieve the desired clamping effect to hold the action securely in the stock. If the action is bedded with these parts touching and the wood shrinks or compresses the action will no longer be held securely, no matter how tight the front guard screw is. I was thinking of putting a spacer ( maybe about .004" thick ) between these two parts and making the rear guard screw bushing long enough so the gap between magazine and receiver is the same at front and back. After the glass has set I would then take out the spacer around the front guard screw and then reassemble. This would leave enough room when the front guard screw is tightened to get a good grip on the stock. Was also considering enlarging the hole in the stock at the front guard screw a little and then putting some tape around the round lug on the front of the bottom metal for clearance and then bedding. This would act something like pillar bedding, keeping the wood from compressing.
I would appreciate any comments on this bedding procedure. Am I on the right track or is there a better way of doing this?

Thanks, Hart

hart,

You are exactly on track according to some folks (me included). I have only done two Mausers, neither of them mine, so I do not have vast experience. There has been much discussion on this forum about this subject.

Your method is called the "poured pillar" method and is perfectly acceptable up to 375 caliber - above that you probably want a steel recoil surface. The pillar you pour is actually a "Y" supporting the action in front of and behind the action lug.

According to "right thinking" folks , if you glue in the rear spacer it becomes a pillar also. I usually bed the bottom metal as well - usually as a second step.

I like to put a thin layer of tape on the front and bottom surfaces of the recoil lug and then bed it. When pulled off this leaves the desired space so that the action is supported on the flats. (A little clean up is desirable around the front screw.)

I let the action be supported by a removable spacer just in front of the front pillar (1.5 inches from the lug) and at the rear pillar while the bedding sets. After all is sitting in the bedding to my liking I gently wedge a toothpick under the front of the barrel to take the cantilever load. I usually pull the action into the bedding (if thick like steel bed) very very gently with the action screws, then back them off just a tad. I back them out another 1/8 turn after the bedding gets to the "stiff clay" stage.

If you make your "forms and dams" with very stiff modelling clay it can support the action and barrel for you. I also put clay where I want a radius and to keep the bedding out of any crevices and holes.

I wrap all in a "sore back" heating pad to keep the temp up to 100 degrees for several days to assure a hard cure.

There are probably dozens of ways to do this that yield good results. You can probably tell I'm a fiddly amateur rather than a professional gunsmith - they do it all in half the time and effort.

YMMV

Don

I'm even more of an amateur, as I've only glass-bedded one -- a Mark X in a Bell & Carlson stock.

I pretty much followed the advice in Kuhnhausen's manual. I glassed the rear action screw hole with the bushing well coated in release agent so it is a very tight fit but can still be removed.

Then I glassed the recoil lug area and a few inches forward under the chamber. I did put tape on the front, bottom and sides of the recoil lug, not out of any great knowledge but because that's what the Brownell's instruction sheet said to do.

With all the screws tight there is just a sliver of air space between the magazine box and receiver, and I can feel the receiver and bottom metal making solid contact when I tighten them. On this particular rifle I had to file the top of the magazine box to get that air space but my Mexican action fits just as you described once I added one of the rear screw sleeves from Brownell's.

I won't say it's worked wonders for the Mark X but it certainly hasn't done any harm.

I bed a lot of Mausers and they are the most simple of bolt actions to bed...you may leave a very thin line that will close under screw pressure. Mausers actions need full contact in the lug area and tang for the most part and about 1" of the chamber. Not like a M0d 70 win that should only contact the rear of the recoil lug and tang and 1" of barrel...As Don said the Mauser is piller bedded by designed and I got throughly trashed for that statement on this board last time that came up but the Mauser was the prototype of the benchrester discovery of piller bedding, Mauser invented it in 1919.

I forgot to add the reason that Paul Mauser put that little button on the front recoil lug was to allow for wood shrinkage and alignment..it can be filled off or drilled deeper whichever is desirable as can the rear piller sleeve..Most folks just leave the rear piller out but I like it and the reason its there is to aline the action angle properly.. Rest assured that there is not one thing on a Mauser that does not have a important purpose for being there. No other design can make this claim apparantly.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

FWIW the "NRA Gunsmithing Guide" has a few chapters on glass-bedding rifles, one specifically for Mausers, then an extra artcile on the big-boys, 375s and up -- yee hoo !!

Guys, thanks for the replies. I am basically going to do it as you guys mentioned.
John, the way I read it in Kuhnhausen's book is that he glasses the rear sleeve into the stock without release agent. Don, I see it the same as you, for it to be a proper pillar it should be an integral part of the stock.
Now, when it comes to the front guard screw, I still think this in an inexact science. Kuhnhausen says to tighten front guard screws ( stockmakers screws ) till you get metal to metal contact between receiver and bottom metal. Ray, I like your idea of adjusting the length by filing or drilling as long as one does not put it together with the parts too far apart. Don, backing off the screw a tad sound like it should work, but I think I will put a small spacer made from a beer can (about .003") between the parts. I hope this is not too thick.
Ray, do you leave a space at the sides and the front of the recoil lug? I was thinking of putting some electricians tape on these surfaces, like Don and John mentioned. Also, how long ago was the thread on Mausers and pillars, I must have missed it. My way of thinking is that to have a proper pillar in the front you would have to cut off the cylindrical piece that is on the front tang of the bottom metal and gluing it into the stock.

Thanks, Hart

Thanks, Lefty, I will keep my eyes open for one of these books.

Hart.

Hart,
Let me refrase your question...Why do you think the piller must be part of the stock as long as a proper fit is achieved...A proper fit is required on any gun for it to shoot and how you get there is not as important as the fact that you got there..

Pillers are for return to zero more than any thing else and to allow for wood shrinkage and swelling which is mostly zilch in properly aged and cut wood and supposedly none existant in glass stocks, alltough they will succomb to heat faster than wood.....

Also all these things can be accomplished without pillers and have been for years...Pillers are the latest rage and are an option, but certainly not the cure all they have been touted as....Mausers are piller bedded by design and were the instrument that two well known bench resters used to come up with this piller bedding design along with a touching steel cross bar as a recoil lug also used in early Mausers...this further hatched the idea of a steel milled action bed so well thought of by our benchresters...the Mauser has been the mother of all guns great and small.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Hart,

Loosening the screws was not to "allow clearance" - it was simply to keep from gluing them in. Even if the screws are coated with wax that steel-bed makes a perfectly fitted form that wants to bind everything. If the screws seem to be wanting to bind I will pull them one at a time after an hour or 90 minutes and remove the collar of bedding around them. You can do this without disturbing the bedding itself.

Don

What do you use for a release agent if you do not have any from Brownells???

By the way, excellent info, easy to understand even for a novice like myself.

I use paste wax if I don't have any Brownells release agent. I also use paste wax to fill cavities and holes where I don't want the epoxy to go.

Yup, I remember when Ray got zapped...he was trying to help me!!

I was in the process of bedding my wife's 7x57 Brno. I wanted to full-length bed the rifle, stem to stern. I removed enough wood from the barrel channel to get a space under the barrel for the epoxy. Unfortunately this Brno had way too much up pressure so now the barrel centerline was below parallel, it really looked bad. He suggested using a spacer under the front receiver flat to lift the front of the action so the barrel centerline would be parallel with the stock (very common sense). That is when the proverbial Pandoras Box of flames began.
I ended up using carefully tin-snipped pieces of Diet Pepsi can! About six stacked did the trick. Which I proceeded to glass in too .

Ray, you were right by the way, that Brno is now almost a bug-hole shooter with the GS HV's.

As for release agent, if you go to a Fred Meyers or K-mart there is a product for womens facials that is called "mask". It is polyvinyl alcohol. This is exactly the same thing as product in Bronwell's. All you have to do is dilute the gel to a watery consistency and you are good to go. They come in different scents so they smell pretty too. It is cheaper per tube than Johnsons but I think the next rifle I do I will use the Johnsons. It would seem to give a better fit and I had the problem of the Brownells release agent stripping from the metal if there is too tight a fit.

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[This message has been edited by Roger Rothschild (edited 01-21-2002).]

I just re-bedded my 416 with steel-bed. I sprang for a can of Brownell's spray Acra Release. After using it, I'd suggest using Johnson'd paste wax, then lightly spray this stuff. This stuff does not dry to a waxy film like the liquid in the kit. I had no trouble, but it looks like it could be displaced by stiff bedding.

Don

The best release agent you will find is any brand of paste wax containing carnuba ( I use Johnson's but there are others )

Apply with a stiff bristled brush such as an acid brush. Let dry then buff with a clean cloth. Apply a second coat, let dry then buff again. After many many glassing operations over 15 years (used Brownells before that) I have never had anything even try to stick. The brush helps get it down into cracks and crevices. It was recomended to me by Brown Precision way back then.

Finally when you are through wax and buff the barreled action again before assembly. It is the best rust preventive you will find, it does not attract dust or dirt either.

Ray, what I guess it all boils down to is the definition of pillar bedding. When I first heard of the term pillar bedding, it referred to a column "pillar" glued into a stock. Yes the column on the front of the Mauser bottom metal can be called a pillar, but I think of it more as a spacer. The clamping effect is applied by the bottom surface of the receiver and the top surface of the lower tang. Yes a "pillar" is also a spacer, but in this instance it is the pillar that is being clamped and not only the stock.
You are correct when you say "as long as a proper fit is achieved". What I would like is to not only to have a proper fit, but also a proper fit that will never change. In other words repeatability. On a mauser there is probably an ideal amount of clamping pressure required to hold the stock securely in place. It just seems like it would be a little hard to achieve this optimum pressure just as the recoil lug and the bottom metal on the mauser come together. Is there really any harm if you ended up with a few thou gap between the bottom of the recoil lug and the top of the mauser pillar?

Thanks, Hart.

Hart,
The bottom line is if it shoots its right..I suspect were wondering into the world of theoritical jabberish on the pillers question and I consider them both pillers and perhaps a Mauser to a lesser degree..If the wood moves or the plastic moves (both do on ocassions under some circumstances) then all is thrown out of wack...

Mostly, my post was intended to show that the Mauser bottom metal was the father of todays Piller Bedding system...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Roger,
I'm glad to hear that the rifle turned out to be a tack driver, thats allways the bottom line when you cut through the other stuff....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Just finished bedding my 6.5 following the advice given above. I couldn't find Johnsons paste wax or the Mask recommended so I used my carnauba car wax and a toothbrush, worked great. Next step is to take it to the range to see if it helped.

Home Depot carries Johnson's Wax.

Don

Hi Ray

Good dope on the bedding.Have done about the same with Rugers.

BTW talked to you last year after all the flames,got hot and heavy.
Twin Falls ID.Used to stop st a sport shop to get my lic.and tags on the way to Stanley.Grat country.Like it has changed a bunch.

Frogman

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frogman