Hey Guys,
I have an opportunity to buy a very nice, complete G33/40 action. Complete with trigger, bolt assembly, and hinged bottom metal.

I really think I'll need to build this into a 275 Rigby, but don't want to overspend. Seller wants $600, which seems like a lot of money for a M98 action, but it is a G33/40.

Can you talk me into by telling me I'm a fool if I let it pass?

If a G33/40 is what you really want, and its in great condition, buy it.

Are you able to accurately assess whether it's been messed with? If everything north of the bottom metal is near-virginal most of us would grab such an action at $600 these days.

You say that it has "hinged" bottom metal. The G.33/40 came with regular Model 98 bottom metal, so if the one you are looking at has hinged bottom metal then that is not the bottom metal that was original to the action. It would be interesting to know what bottom metal it is. Photo?

Regardless, that action is not being made anymore, and it is a desireable action. If you want it for a custom rifle project where you are going to use exceptional wood, replace the trigger, replace the bolt handle, have an expensive barrel fit, nice checkering, etc., then a few hundred bucks extra for a good action really isn't much to worry about.

In fact, if its in great shape, if the bolt is original to the action, and if you decide to pass on it, let me know.

the real value in a 33/40 action is that not only is it well made, but it provides a wonderful basis for a really lightweight rifle. thus unless you want a lightweight rifle, it can be a waste of a few hundred bucks

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
the real value in a 33/40 action is that not only is it well made, but it provides a wonderful basis for a really lightweight rifle. thus unless you want a lightweight rifle, it can be a waste of a few hundred bucks

What is the difference in weight between the 33/40 and a standard 98 action?

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
the real value in a 33/40 action is that not only is it well made, but it provides a wonderful basis for a really lightweight rifle. thus unless you want a lightweight rifle, it can be a waste of a few hundred bucks

What is the difference in weight between the 33/40 and a standard 98 action?

Practically speaking, not much.. The real benefit is that with the small receiver diameter you can fit a smaller barrel that still looks right. That's where the real weight savings comes into play.

Stokes, you'd be a fool to spend that much money on an action that has no better functionality than a standard M98, less potential accuracy than a Remington 700 and weighs more than a Kimber. I can't believe someone could even ask $600 for a G.33/40.

Send me the seller's phone number so I can chew his ass out.

quote:

Send me the seller's phone number so I can chew his ass out.

Forrest,

It is so nice of you to take your time to try and set this seller right.

Yea, verily, his kindness is overweening....not, to mention kinda smart.....!

I mean, in a world of T3s, Savages, Remmy 700s and A-Bolts, WHO would possibly want some old Mauser, eh???

Well, I looked it over closer, and I'm not sure I wanna get it now...

Bottom metal is that junky stuff that looks like 1909 stuff, but made of zinc or some other light weight stuff.

Also, the bolt handle is certainly not correct.
It still has a military style safety. Didn't see the trigger, but I'm sure it's nothing special.

Still... $600 seems like a lot. The receiver itself looks unmolested. Still has the stripper clip guide, but it's been drilled and tapped. It currently has a turn in style base on it (Leupold or Redfield), so I can't see how well the holes were drilled.

Still, should I buy it?

quote:

The real benefit is that with the small receiver diameter

Is the 33/40 a large ring/large thread, small ring/large thread, or small/small?

Thanks.

quote:

Is the 33/40 a large ring/large thread, small ring/large thread, or small/small?

As I understand the G33/40 is a small ring and shank.

I "stole" this one of the best list I have found.

M98 STANDARD LENGTH ACTIONS

I am going to group different actions by length, ring diameter, and barrel shank diameter. The first group will be Type I, these are the "most standard" Mausers. Probably 75% or more of all Mausers produced after 1898 will fall into this category. I am not going to list every model, that would take a book of it's own, but if your particular model is not listed, comparing the dimensions will place it into the correct category. So here are the dimensions for

Type I:
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.315
Recvr ring dia: 1.410 large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

Some of the models that fall into Type I are:
Chilean M1912, Steyr
GEW 98, various mfr's
Brazilian M1908/34, Brno
VZ24, 98/22, 98/29, Brno
M1908 Brazilian, DWM
M1909 Argentine, DWM
M24/30 Venezuelan, FN
M1935 Peruvian, FN
Standard Modell, Mauser Oberndorf
K98k, various mfr's

Remember that the above list is not all-inclusive, the truth is, MOST M98 Mausers fall into this category.


Type II, standard length, small ring, small shank
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.315
Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
Barrel shank dia: .980 small shank

This is pretty much a Czechoslovakian design, the main members of this group are the VZ33 and the G33-40, a commercial version is the VZ47.


Type III, standard length, small ring, large shank
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7,835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.315
Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

As you can see by comparing the receiver ring diameter and the barrel shank diameter, there is not a lot of meat left in this receiver! The main example is the Kar98, and for obvious reasons, it is not wise to rechamber these to a high pressure cartridge.


Type IV, standard length, small ring, small shank, long magazine.
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.400
Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
Barrel shank dia: .980 small shank

These are mainly commercial models, they are identical to Type II, with the exception of a longer magazine to handle 30-06 length cartridges. Main examples are the Husqvarna commercial action, and the Brno ZG47.


Type V, standard length, large ring, large shank, long magazine.
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.400
Recvr ring dia: 1.410 large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

This is a beefier version of the Type IV. It is typified by the late FN commercial actions.


M98 INTERMEDIATE LENGTH ACTIONS

This is actually a fairly small group of models, the amount of headaches these cause (when trying to find a part or stock) is way out of proportion to the number of models. Most of these will have some part of the action shortened to save weight. Starting off with Type VI:

Type VI, Oberndorf intermediate action
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.165
Magazine length: 3.115
Receiver ring dia: 1.410, large ring
Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

I call this the Oberndorf intermediate action, as they are the only ones who produced it. Commonly encountered models include:
1903 Turk
1909 Peruvian
1935 Argentine
Oberndorf Commercial

The 1903 Turk and the 1909 Peruvian also share some other qualities. They both have a very high clip bridge, and a long curved arm on the ejector box that puts pressure on a stripper clip loaded into the receiver, holding it in place. The 1935 Argentine and the Oberndorf commercial action do not have this.
This type has a longer than normal receiver ring, and a longer than normal cocking piece, with a shorter than normal bolt body, hard to figure where the weight savings come in!
The Oberndorf commercial action was also available in a small ring version, all other dimensions identical.


Type VII, FN24 and Yugo actions
Action OAL: 8.500
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
Bolt body length: 6.115
Magazine length: 3.232
Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank

This is the FN M24 action, and the Yugoslavian M48 series. I call this group the Yugoslavian intermediate action. There is also a Type VIIA, FN24 Mexican, see below.


Type VIIA, FN24 Mexican
Action OAL: 8.500
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
Bolt body length: 6.165
Magazine length: 3.232
Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank

I call the Type VIIA the Mexican large ring action. The only difference between the Type VII and VIIA is the length of the bolt body (0.050 difference).


Type VIII, small ring Mexican
Action OAL: 8.500
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
Bolt body length: 6.080
Magazine length: 3.118
Recvr ring dia: 1.300, small ring
Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

The Type VIII has the shortest bolt body in this group. Common models are the Mexican M1910, and M1936. Either one can be found manufactured by FN or Fabrica de Armas in Mexico City.

LONG AND SHORT ACTIONS

Now we are into the expensive stuff! The long actions and short actions are commercial only. The long actions are divided into 2 types, the "British" type and the French type. The British type are not necessarily made in England, but are usually chambered for British cartridges, such as the .416 Rigby or .404 Jeffery. The French type is even longer than the British type, but the French type is actually made in France.

Type IX, British Type, aka M98 long, aka Commercial Magnum
Action OAL: 9.150
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.770
Magazine length: 3.640/3.840
Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank


Type X, French Type, aka French Magnum, aka Brevex Magnum
Action OAL: 9.240
Recvr screws, center to center: 8.207
Bolt body length: 6.740
Magazine length: 3.900
Recvr ring dia: 1.500, X-large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.141, X-large shank.

Notice that the French magnum is larger in every dimension than the British magnum, but the French bolt is shorter by .030"



Type XI, "True" short action, aka Commercial Kurz
Action OAL: 8.125
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.225
Bolt body length: 5.760
Magazine length: 2.725
Recvr ring dia: 1.300, small ring
Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

These are very rare and expensive, and a collector's item on their own. Chambered for short cartridges such as the .250 Savage, they are so hard to come by that they are often made by cutting down a standard Type I M98 action. If you suspect you have one, look for a welded receiver just forward of the thumb cut. Bolts are usually welded just behind the aft end of the guide rib.

quote:

As I understand the G33/40 is a small ring and shank.

At that, then, do the 33/40's generate the same discussions concerning safety/maximum loads that other receivers other than large ring/large thread actions do?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by tin can:

quote:

As I understand the G33/40 is a small ring and shank.

At that, then, do the 33/40's generate the same discussions concerning safety/maximum loads that other receivers other than large ring/large thread actions do?

Thanks.

Only by the uninformed.

quote:

At that, then, do the 33/40's generate the same discussions concerning safety/maximum loads that other receivers other than large ring/large thread actions do

Not that I'm aware

You can have a fake.

This is a Peruvian that is a small thread and small ring now. It has most of the G33/40 cuts on the Receiver.
Butch

To take a Peruvian and do that to it . . . shameful. What's not to love about the high charger hump and Mauser Original stamped on the receiver ring.

Mike I bought it like that without the G33/40 cuts. I wouldn't have done it, but you probably won't like my Remington clone custom that James Anderson is finishing up on either.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
To take a Peruvian and do that to it . . . shameful. What's not to love about the high charger hump and Mauser Original stamped on the receiver ring.

Small ring actions do have some major benefits. The weight savings is a minor benefit IMO.

I have a slightly pitted 09 Peruvian. I would love to leave the crest if it can be saved, but if not it would make a great small ring action with the charger hump intact.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
Small ring actions do have some major benefits.

Such as?

One could do some xtra metal removal from behind the g33/40 recoil lug, like the Kurz.

quote:

22WRF: I would not buy an expensive mauser action that has been drilled and tapped unless I was allowed to take it to a qualified gunsmith to make sure it was done properly.

Ditto. $600 is about the going rate if it were undrilled/un-messed with, unpitted, etc, but if drilled wrong, worthless. Pot metal bottom metal, also worthless.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
Small ring actions do have some major benefits.

Such as?

They look "right" with a barrel that is thinner at the cylinder portion.

They allow for lower scope mounting.

But most importantly, they allow the stock to be thinner through the front ring area.

Yo Trax,

What bottom metal do you have on that kurz?

Why would you leave the charger hump on a Peruvian Mauser action? would it serve as a rear base and take a dovetail for Talley rings??

If you have or can borrow the 30th Gun Digest (1976) there's an interesting article called "The Practical Light Sporter" by James Olt.

Olt's goal was a .270 (he notes he'd have been as happy with a .280 or 7x57) weighing eight pounds total (i.e. with scope, bases, rings, sling, and loaded magazine).

I'll quote: "But for my money the most desirable small ring Mauser action of all is the G33/40, built by the Czechs for German ski troops and paratroopers. All I've seen go exactly 40 ounces....Basically a very smooth small ring 98 Mauser, it was further lightened by milling lightening cuts along the rails. Also, part of the forward receiver ring is milled away."

A military collector pal has a near-new condition infantry issue rifle on the G33/40 action. It appears unfired since it left the factory, with factory test target and all matching numbers (I think including the bayonet).

Rifles in this kind of condition are far too valuable as collectibles to cannibalize for their actions, but I must say I've felt unworthy thoughts when handling it!

Olt also notes an Erfurt-made small ring Mauser weighs 42 ounces. If I were building a classic light 7x57 it seems only right to build on a Mauser action. I personally wouldn't pay a huge premium for a G33/40 over a regular small-ring Mauser, assuming equal condition of course.

On the other hand if what you are looking for is a "practical light sporter" weighing under eight pounds all up, you can buy such over the counter today for a lot less money.

quote:

..I personally wouldn't pay a huge premium for a G33/40 over a regular small-ring Mauser..

The commercial Brno 21[sqrebrdge] and Brno 22[round top], are the only other build worthy small ring std.length mauser action that im aware of.
By the time one adds some nice sculptured bases to the g33/40, theres probably little weight difference to the Brno 21.
Then again I cant see why one cant just grind a large thread/large ring action down to 1.3" dia.

The Brno zg-47 which people seem to have nothing but praise for, does not retain the integrity of a complete LR.

Many German Kar98 carbines were made on standard length (for the 8mm cartridge) small ring actions at Erfurt. I believe this is the action Olt was referring to in his article as weighing two ounces more than the G33/40.

As the information from Ramrod 340 above shows these had a large barrel shank inside a small receiver ring, with not a lot of "meat" left in the receiver ring, but evidently strong enough for the 8mm cartridge.

There were other small ring actions as well for slightly shorter cartridges, such as the Mexican 1910 and 1936, with small receiver ring and small barrel shank. These would be too short for .30-'06 class cartridges but suitable for 7mm Mauser and similar cartridges. I believe Jack O'Connor had a .244 Rem. built on a Mexican Mauser action by Al Biesen.

The nice thing about G33/40 actions in addition to their light weight is the quality of workmanship, steel, and heat treatment. As far as I know the Czech-made guns were never made using forced labor and quality was maintained both before and during the war.

At the last American Custom Gunmakers Guild show at Reno I was talking to Ralf Martini (of Martini & Hagn, makers of outstanding single shot and bolt action custom rifles) about building a light sporter in 7x57. He highly recommended the Brno 21. He said (assuming the barrel was good) it would need very little work other than restocking to make a top quality custom rifle. Which I guess is why these Brnos are getting hard to find, and expensive when you do find them.

quote:

On the other hand if what you are looking for is a "practical light sporter" weighing under eight pounds all up, you can buy such over the counter today for a lot less money.

I would tend to agree. I have three G.33/40 actions, and I'm just going to keep them for increase in value while I use my new Kimber Montana!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Why would you leave the charger hump on a Peruvian Mauser action? would it serve as a rear base and take a dovetail for Talley rings??

You might be able to use the hump as the base, but I would think it would be too short(too short lengthwise, not height).

Personally, I like the charger hump because it so "Mauser".

The 09 Peruvian hump being so tall and finely sculpted eliminates it from my list of possible "improvements".

I hate seeing any charger hump removed.

Removing a Peruvian charger hump is sacrilege.

I take that back, it is far worse than sacrilege.

To give you and idea of how much I like the Peruvian charger hump: to my eyes the 09 Peruvian hump is more pleasing than a square bridge.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Why would you leave the charger hump on a Peruvian Mauser action? would it serve as a rear base and take a dovetail for Talley rings??

Removing a Peruvian charger hump is sacrilege.

I take that back, it is far worse than sacrilege.

+1, especially since you can work around it and still attach bases. The charger hump and the ORIGINAL MAUSER stamped on the receiver ring are the defining elements of a Peruvian, to me.

There are two Peruvians. One made by Mauser, and the other made by FN.

Charger guides should be left in place. People have been mounting scopes around them for decades.

Here is a Leupold QR base fitted around a 1938 Brno model B in 8x60.

Stokes, if a small ring 275 Rigby (7x57) is what you want to build, I would choose the shorter Mexican Mauser over a G33/40 for the platform.

If building a modernised custom mauser, the charge hump really needs to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
If building a modernised custom mauser, the charge hump really needs to go , if you want to ruin it.

I fixed your quote.

I'm just kidding.(sort of)

So I suppose in in a like way, that purist Barbera Striesand fans would be disgruntled if she got a plastic surgeon to grind down prominant trademark chargehump beak?....

All matching All original G33/40 -UNFIRED.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
So I suppose in in a like way, that purist Barbera Striesand fans would be disgruntled if she got a plastic surgeon to grind down prominant trademark chargehump beak?....

Compare a Peruvian fan to a Striesand fan? You sir, should be slapped!

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
So I suppose in in a like way, that purist Barbera Striesand fans would be disgruntled if she got a plastic surgeon to grind down prominant trademark chargehump beak?....

All matching All original G33/40 -UNFIRED.

In that instance I would only be disgruntled if they stopped grinding once they removed the charger hump beak, and did not keep grinding until all that was left of the barreled action was the barrel.