Help!

I've been posting on the medium bore forum regarding a rifle for a class I'll be taking. I decided to stick with the Win M70 I have with a new scope although my accuracy has been poor. I wasn't sure if it was me, the rifle, or the scope. I bought a gun vise to help me give it a thorough cleaning. I've been running patches through for two days (wet patch, bronze brush, dry patch on a jag. I must have done this 20 times. After all this time I'm still getting black and blue/green on the patches.

I'm using Hoppes copper remover. Is this normal? I thought I gave this rifle a thorough cleaing every time I fired it in the past. Should I keep cleaning till the patches come out completely clean?

Hoppes copper cutter is pathetically mild.It could take a day or more to remove really heavy copper fouling.Try barnes cr-10 or sweets 7.62 and the copper will be gone in short order.

If it shows green there is still copper in the barrel. Keep going.

Citori3,

With "most" barrels, it is possible that you will continue to pull copper out for a while anyway. One thing you should know, when a barrel pulls copper from a bullet it is usually to fill the tiny fissures, pores and machine marks that remain after the barrel has been made. On a factory produced barrel I wouldn't worry to much about it. You can scrub until it's no longer visible but the first few rounds you fire on a spotless barrel will once again strip copper to fill in these spots. These first few rounds are refered to as fouling rounds, for a reason...

Good Luck,

Malm

A couple of years ago I bout Outers Foul Out III.

One of the best things I ever did.

Wally

citori3..

Set the bronze brush aside; it contains copper.

The copper solvent is continually eating away at the brush and leaving the blue-green streaks. You will otherwise be cleaning until you are one very old man.

Use a nylon brush and the copper solvent ( I prefer Sweets 7.62) and you will be done cleaning fairly quickly. Don't let the Sweets ( or any copper solvent ) set for more than fifteen minutes before removing.

For very stubborn fouling problems I have found JB Bore Paste to work wonders.

Bob

I would highly recommend you try the the product called "J-B Non-embedding Bore Cleaner". I learned about it about 20 years ago from a Vietnam Vet bench rest shooter. It is a great product that will not harm the bore backed by a money back warranty!

It is about $8 per 2 oz jar. Available from Brownell's, Gander Mts. and most gunsmiths.

Hope this helps!

J.B. paste and Sweet's are two products that I rate about as important as ear and eye protection or paper targets as necessities for shooting centerfire rifles. In my opinion, you simply can't be without them.

Thanks for the tip on JB bore cleaner. After days of cleaning with Hoppes and a brush, I tried JB and the patches came out black! Is this stuff abrasive? It seems to dissolve in bore cleaner.

One more question. The bolt is now stiff when I work the action. Any thoughts on what may have caused this? It still closes on snap caps.

Citori3,
Yes, JB is a mild abrasive. Be sure when you use it to keep it out of the action and moveing parts of your gun. A bore guide is a must. If you don`t have one it`s a good idea to get one whether or not you use abrasives or chemical cleaners. It`s a good idea to use JB in moderation IMHO. I`ve used it and Rem bore cleaner (also an abrasive) when I`ve let fouling get bad, and will in the future, but prefer to use Shooters Choice or Butches bore shine.
Don`t forget to be sure you get it all out of the bore when your done.

[ 06-18-2003, 08:28: Message edited by: Ol` Joe ]

Can anyone advise me on how to clean the bolt lug recesses on my model 70 Win.? I think some grit may have gotten in there while I was at the range last week. Also, should bolt lugs be oiled or greased?

There are a couple of places, including Midway, that sell a tool expressly made for cleaning the lug recesses clean. I don't have one so I spray it out a bit with gun scrubber and then use a q-tip after bending the tip to get in there a bit better.

Red

Most of the mail order shooting supply houses sell a tool for cleaning the lug recesses.
I use Shooters Choice grease on my bolts, I`ve seen a few shooters prefering oil, but grease seems to be the #1 choice. The best I can say is be sure to have something on them. It doesn`t take much, I put a dab on and spread it with a Q tip. To look at the lug after I`ve lubed it you wouldn`t think there is any grease at all.

I have better things to do than wait for my bore solvent to work. Get the gooy, messy Sweets and get your bore clean. I use it on everything from my Obendorf Mauser to my double rifle. Please follow the instructions on the bottle. What a concept!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Rusty - I was also a diehard Sweets fan until I discovered Montana X-Treme. It dissolves copper a little quicker than Sweets, but is much safer to use. You can soak a bore with X-Treme with no adverse reactions (etching). The end result, even less scrubbing. (Available at Sinclair)

The only downside is vapor exposure. X-Treme is quite strong.

If anyone has the formula for "Blue Goop", perhaps they will post it. This stuff is magic. If you uncork it in the house, your family will dissapear, and if you uncork it in the outdoors, HAZMAT and SWAT will appear...


Malm

IOSSO paste bore cleaner is also an outstanding product. It removes stuff that will blow your mind when you thought your barrel was clean.

"I tried JB and the patches came out black!"

They always come out black, even with a clean bore. Rub a piece of clean steel with a patch that has JB on it, black....right. Do not try to clean with JB until the black goes away. It never will. You are polishing the steel.

[ 06-19-2003, 00:04: Message edited by: scot ]

Scot,

You really know how to scare the hell out of a guy! The patches did come out cleaner over time. I stopped after about 10 patches since I was getting concerned about potential abrasion. I think I'm going to leave things alone for the time being. It may not be perfect, but it's alot better than it was!

The recipe for "Blue Goop" is using 25% commercial Amonia ( get it at the Drug Store )

Mix 1 quart of Amonia to 1 cup of Hydrogen Peroxide...If you want it blue to see if its working toss a penny or a bullet in the jar..After cleaning oil profusely and never leave the stuff in the bore more than 15 minutes, were talking strong stuff here...use outside they tell me...I keep it on hand for tough jobs. Barnes CR-10 is the second strongest product on the market BUT:

This is the 20th century, where in the world have you guy been with all those old outdated cleaners like Sweets, Hoppes, JB's etc....but I have to admit Kroil and JBs paste is effective albiet time consuming...Now herein lies the greatest product since sliced white bread, read on!!!

"WIPE OUT" is the only way to go these days..I spray the foam in the barrel, let it sit for a couple of hours and swab it out, then dry and oil and I don't care how bad the bore is, it done, On one ocassion with an old double rifle I had to do it twice...

Jim Brockman has left Wipe Out in all night on horribly bad fouling and cleaned it out the next day and sez it was squeeky clean....oil well and put away...remember the oil is necessary on surgically cleaned steel and that is what we are dealing with here.....

No, I have no financial interrest in the company, just like the product, it made my life easier

Dago Red,

Thanks for the info.

The good news is that I did what you said to clean the bolt recesses, relubed with CLP and everything is smooth again.

The bad news is that RAMLINE STOCKS DON'T LIKE GUNSCRUBBER. It melted the stock on the sides and left black plastic residue glued to my hand. I hope this won't disturb the bedding of the action. I should have thought of this before I started spraying!