My question is, does the comb height/angle effect felt recoil? Meaning, if the top of the buttstock was exactly inline with the bore(like the ar15), and the butt perpendicular to the bore, would the felt recoil be less then if the comb was lower and the but at a slight angle? We are talking shotguns, but would apply to any longarm.

Thanks,
JAG

JAG,
The lower the position of the heel of the stock on your shoulder relative to the centerline of the bore, the more recoil slap you get from the shot. The distance between the bore and the pivot point ( heel hopefully) is the moment arm and multiplied times the recoil force creates a moment and you feel the muzzle jump up and the stock slaps your cheek. If the contact/pivot point is lower, the recoil is higher.

Customstox,
What you say about drop is obviously true, easily calculable, and intuitively clear as can be.

Could you define the term "pitch down" for us? You have not finished the question about how pitch of the rifle butt affects the recoil motion of the rifle.

Pitch down will counteract the muzzle rise caused by the drop of the buttstock.

Rip,
I do not agree with your assessment of pitch. Pitch is basically the angle of the butt relative to the bore. More pitch will make a large chested individual feel more comfortable under recoil. A stock with no pitch will put the toe of the stock as the primary contact on your body if your build is more stout and the initial fulcrum will be from that point and the moment produced will be greatly increased. The object with pitch is to get the angle to fit your build. At that point the stock and its contact surface will act as a recoil area instead of only one end or the other and the resulting uncomfortable recoil. Consider this extreme example, a pitch of 6" will give you only a point of recoil resitance at the rear of the stock and that is the heel of the stock (upper end - toe is the bottom) and the muzzle lift will still be dependent on the amount of drop from the bore to the heel and the recoil energy. Neiher of those two factors are changed by the increased pitch and therefore the muzzle whip will be the same.

[ 10-22-2003, 20:15: Message edited by: Customstox ]

THanks for the info. I knew I would get a straight anwser here.

Regards,
JAG

Customstox,
Well, O.K., that makes sense. So a normal amount of pitch, of the "pitch down" or proper type has little to do with muzzle rise, but more with comfort of contact of the rifle butt with chest and shoulder, for well muscled shooters.

But how about the opposite ridiculous extreme example of 6" of negative pitch or "pitch up?" This would cause the toe of the butt to spear the shooter and really increase the perpendicular distance from bore line to fulcrum point at the toe. This would cause increased muzzle flip wouldn't it?

I still say that even if a slight proper pitch (pitch down) has little effect, versus the zero pitch stock, on muzzle rise, it will not contribute any additive effect at all to the muzzle rise, but may indeed contribute some slight dampening of this rise, as the heel is the fulcrum and the toe coming rearward in recoil will cause a moment downward of the gun with heel as the fulcrum.

Can anyone refute my above statement on the effect of pitch on rifle movement in recoil?

[ 10-22-2003, 23:21: Message edited by: RIP ]

RIP, the force coming back is in line with the barrels and the moment produced is dependent on the distance from the fulcrum to the bore line and the resulting moment is up, so no, the fact that the toe coming back will not dampen the muzzle lift. I think you are confusing the idea of the center of mass of the gun providing a moment in a downward direction but that is there no matter what the fit is.

Dear RIPE,

See, I'm not the only one that will tell you those big drops of the butt will cause muzzle flip.

Customstox,
Thank you for pointing out the center of mass of the gun downward moment. That is my momentary confusion. I accept that the pitch works for comfort of fit.

Will,
I have never denied the obvious fact that drop of the butt causes increased muzzle rise.

What I am doing is proving to YOU that the pitch (pitch down) of butt has nothing to do with muzzle rise, as you have long been the whiner about every aspect of the CZ stock, and blamed the pitch as well as the drop for your traumatic experiences with the CZ Lux.

Now you can quit whining about the pitch and concentrate your whining on the drop, if you will just go do some pushups and build up your pecs. Think Ricardo Montalban in _The Wrath of Kahn_.

Dear RIPPED,

I'm calling a truce! (Just kidding you anyway).

Have a good weekend.