I'm going to put a clear poly finish on a laminated target stock.

I'd like to start with a couple of coats of Daly's Ship n Shore sealer.

Then I'd like to sand in the poly, although I don't guess it makes much difference as there are really no pores to fill.

I'm not looking for that much of a built up finish, although I'd like to protect the wood as much as possible.

And it's been suggested that an oil finish will pretty much dissolve when faced with the vitriolic solvents target guys use to clean the bore.

Also, there's the time issue. I can't really wait too long between the coats.

Comments or suggestions?

flaco

Never used it but several people say that it changes the color of the dye in tha laminate. In particular it turns black laminate a sickly green.

Hey flaco,

I've used Danish Watco Oil on a couple of laminates. Easy to work with and it seems to hold up pretty well. I really can't say what those vitriolic solvents might do to it, I try real hard to be un-sloppy when I clean my rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Never used it but several people say that it changes the color of the dye in tha laminate. In particular it turns black laminate a sickly green.

I've seen that happen.

Never ever try and put a polyurethane over an oil finish. This will not stick. I had to peel a whole stock that had oil for a first coat and then 3-4 coats of Permalyn for fill coats. The truoil was dry for a year. If you have any questions there might be a phone # on the can of finish you plan on using. While polyurethane is great finish, it doesn't stick to many other types of finish. Even to itself. If applying multiple coats you must follow the recommended interval in between coats. Too much drying time causes poor adhesion to the new coat. Follow the instructions to the letter. Oil finish is much easier and forgiving apply and touch up. It's just not as waterproof.

I'm not sure what kind of finish the Daly's is??? Maybe they are compatible?

I had to copy from a translated PDF, so the type's a little wonky, but here's what the spec sheet says.

"Description: Daly’s SeaFin Ship `N Shore is a deeply penetrating wood waterproofing sealer. As it penetrates, SeaFin Ship `N Shore becomes an integral part of the cell structure, hardening the wood from 15% to 25%. SeaFin Ship `N Shore is practically colorless, odorless and non-toxic. Does not raise the grain and because of deep penetration, leaves no surface film to chip, crack, chalk, blister or peel. SeaFin Ship `N Shore is an excellent
conditioner for wood surfaces such as decks, handrails, cabins, hulls, masts and canvas
or any area where paint or varnish is to be used.

Recommended Uses: SeaFin Ship `N Shore is fully compatible with urethane varnishes and practically all stain products. It will give added life to weather worn exterior stained surfaces, and applied to metals aids in preventing rust. SeaFin Ship `N Shore is recommended for added protection on non-painted surfaces such as decks, docks and siding having a western or southern exposure or where salt water spray is a problem, and also for cedar paneling in bathrooms and high humidity areas where no surface finish is desired. Use on benches and railings to protect against wear and tear."

Looks like the stuff is compatible with poly.

I'd like to use it because it's recommended as a sealer by one of our most accomplished stock makers.

Of course, on top of this I'd prefer to use an oil finish, but my instructions are otherwise.

Must be poly.

Oh, and the laminate is natural, no dies.

flaco

Unless you mean the Serengheti style laminate, I would be careful. All of the 1/8" multi-layer laminates made of beech and/or walnut veneers come from the same one or two manufactures and are dyed. At a mimimum, the contrasting dark layers.

With all the glue already in the 1/8 inch layers of veneer you probably aren't going to get anything to penetrate much. You can try all the fancy names you like, but some plain ol' polyurethane in the spray can really can't be beat. It takes some careful application to avoid "orange peel" when spraying, but done properly the finish will last for years.

Should work just fine..I don't even know if I would sand it in...A built up high gloss finish is far more water proof than any in the wood finish unfortunatly...but on a target rifle who cares, utility/stability is the concern..

I always knock the finish back to an egg shell, but that does make the stock more vunerable to moisture, like it or not..

Higher the gloss the more protection , with that said one can put several coats of High gloss urethane on a stock . Allowing proper drying times between coats of course . I prefer Floor urethanes Solvent types are best Some have Tung oil with resin fortifiers in them . Such as Gym Floor finishes . Another Great product is Epfanes marine varnishes ( Captains or flag ship ). These are really Modern day urethanes any more .

Once you decide and apply which ever finish your going to use wait until after a 3-4 day full curing . Air movement and temp elevation can speed this up . Knock back with XXX Rottenstone using a felt pad with an oil such as used for Gun stock oil finishes . Talk about Beautiful and DURABLE . A nice stain hand rubbed urethane protected piece of Beauty !.

I've never experienced Dye bleed from laminated stocks . But then again I use a sealer to set fast any Dye bleed . I don't build stocks professionally . I have how ever had Numerous years of experience in finishing a variety of Wood projects mild too wild exotics included .

Practice on a small portion of the stock to ensure what ever YOU choose doesn't bleed stain .
Shoot Straight Know your target . ...

Flaco,

If you cut off a piece of the forearm to install a bit of ebony, use what you cut off to test your desired finish. It will either work or it won't; at least you won't have to strip and resand the entire stock if your plan backfires somehow.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
Never ever try and put a polyurethane over an oil finish. This will not stick. I had to peel a whole stock that had oil for a first coat and then 3-4 coats of Permalyn for fill coats. The truoil was dry for a year. If you have any questions there might be a phone # on the can of finish you plan on using. While polyurethane is great finish, it doesn't stick to many other types of finish. Even to itself. If applying multiple coats you must follow the recommended interval in between coats. Too much drying time causes poor adhesion to the new coat. Follow the instructions to the letter. Oil finish is much easier and forgiving apply and touch up. It's just not as waterproof.

I'm not sure what kind of finish the Daly's is??? Maybe they are compatible?

You must have found some extenuating circumstances, tung oils I ve used recommmend poly for a finish product.I admit I dont do much finishing,but poly over tung oil is something I have done several times,always worked out great.I have been making cabinets for over 20 years.I have also done a few stocks,always worked fine,howeverI have never used tru-oil,maybe that is the culprit.

After I had the poly peel like potato chips off a stock that was first coated with truoil I dug in my books from gunsmithing school. I was surprised I still had the handout about finish. There is a chart that showed the adhesion properties using different finishes. The combination I used had the worst possible adhesion. It also stressed in the article that while poly is a GREAT finish it needs to be applied exactly as the manufacturer recommends. It also stated that it was one of the most difficult finish to refinish and was best to sand the old finish completely off and re apply. Most of the poly finishes you find in the hardware store are modified with many things and are easier to touchup and refinish.

The article was from a Fine Woodworking magazine from July 1979. It was written by Don Newell a paint and varnish chemist.

A trick for any of you interested .

I learned this from a professional wooden boat restorer . Seal any wood with Epoxy Sealer or a Vinyl sealer , one coat . Slightly scuff or abrade surface so as to ensure adhesion for what ever top coat process you apply .

Also It's not necessary to cut off any part of the stock ; unless you wish to adhere an Ebony cap . Simply try a small area as to assure your self no stain or dye bleed will occur .
If it does simply sand that area a little to remove it .

Remember Covalent bonds are best no matter what finish is used . Mechanical and Chemical adhesion .

Any Urethane or epoxy is the best way to lock wood or seal from moisture . Tough as well as durable . Most old timers think it looks like plastic wood . It can if done incorrectly !. If done properly it's Beauty & Protection unsurpassed . IMO / I have nothing against oil finishes either they look beautiful to although their protection is less than I prefer .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

I did take a chance and use the Sea Finn Ship 'n Shore sealer. It worked fine on the laminated stock. Which had not been stained or dyed.

My boss wanted me to use Behlen Master-Gel for finish coats.

This is a wipe-on poly varnish. It's easy to apply, and the wait between coats is only four hours.

It's clear, with excellent clarity. It provides a very slight darkening, depending on the number of coats, and yellowing.

It goes on easy, although the coats are thin compared to a traditional varnish.

But... it's very hard.

We left a little in the bottom of a plastic cup, and when it dried, it was like a block of epoxy. That hard.

Anyway, this combo worked well for me, resulting in a nice lustrous--not "dippped-in-plastic"--look.

flaco

Another real tried and true method of a durable finish is Automotive or Aerospace even Marine Two component Urethane clear. Sand wipe stock with acetone or lacquer thinner . Then tack rag the stock . Now spray light coats of mixed product allowing solvent evaporation between coats . Followed by a nice gloss coat . Allow to fully cure knock back with rotten stone and felt pad or buffing compound . Beauty durable as all get out , ease of repair if necessary .
Remember Aerospace products such as Lessonal Randolph ,Deft, Crown Metro offer extreme chemical protection .

Happy New Year too ALL . ...