Now, I have a few questions.
Do any of you have any recommendations regarding which action I should use?
As far as barrels, would any of you recommend Pac-Nor? How are their chambers? Bore finish? Would a Douglas be worth the money?
As for stock, who makes good laminate stocks that are inletted or semi-inletted for mausers? Are there any that are relatively light?
As far as caliber, which is easier to get quality brass for at a reasonable price - 7x57 or 6.5x55?
Pac-nor makes excellent barrels and will fit them for a reasonable price. In my opinion pac-nor makes a much better barrel than douglas, others may disagree.
Elk ridge is one company making laminated stocks, there are many others out there as well.
The 7x57mm will be easier to find brass for.
I started with a early 50's FN mauser action and added a #2 Douglas premium barrel(23 ")in .35 Whelen. I installed a model 70 style safety(2 position) and a Timney trigger. I spend quite a bit of time slicking the action and it feeds like a dog slurping sausages.
The stock is one I carved myself from a laminate blank obtained from Gun Parts Inc. I used a large 1" Pachmayr decelarator recoil pad and shaped the stock to fit the pad. I ended up with a stock that is somewhat heavier than a similar stock in walnut. In general, all things being equal, laminated wood is heavier than walnut, in my experience.
I had the metal finished in teflon and topped the rifle off with a 2-7 Leupold compact scope. I even had an old Whelen type sling to go with the rifle.
The whole setup ended up weighing 8.5-9 lbs and is one sweet rifle.
If you go ahead with your project, you won't go wrong with components you listed.
http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/paulharper/35whelen.jpg
http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/paulharper/whelen_safety.jpg
Stocks: don't know. Don't like the looks of laminates.
Goto http://benchrest.com/sst where there is a huge number of makers of everything.
7x57 in Winchester brass.
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[This message has been edited by Roger Rothschild (edited 02-21-2002).]
Roger,
the Argentine needs lots of work unless you just want something that will go bang!! It must be surface ground, then drilled and tapped for scope use, It certainly needs a new trigger $65.00, It must have a new bolt to work with a scope $100., and a new safty to work with a scope $50 to $150, then polishing and blueing, $100 minimum, and thats just to make it usable with a scope...
I agree it takes $800 to do one RIGHT and I agree you can jury rig one or even shoot it as is for nothing, if you just shoot a mil surp iron sighted rifle.....
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Ray Atkinson
If you go with the Legacy, you will still have to replace the bolt, the one they have on there is really ugly.
Most laminate stocks are rather heavy. The plys are impregnated with some resins and they do not come in light. English Walnut is also rather dense. It is difficult to predict the weight of a rifle like this if you are doing it as a one of project.
I
Also, I heard about Richards Micro-fit stocks. Are they any good?
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From my cold, dead hands!
Thanks Chuck!
VZ-24 action...$100
Boyds stock.....$90
Barell threaded for the action and
chambered for .270 Win at a gun show
from a guys "mistake"......$50
Leupold 2-7 scope....$245
scope base and rings....$60
timney trigger.....$45
gunsmith work.....$100
Bluing...$90
GRAND TOTAL......$780
Now figure the shilen barell would run you a minimum $150 along with another $150 for threading and chambering and we are right up there at $1000. so yes it can be done if you are patient for the right deals.
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Endeavor to Persevere
We do not want to surface grind. Why would ANYone want to do this and totally destroy the character of the receiver by grinding off that glorious crest. If you want to do that, sure, buy a CZ or a Turk that is worthless to begin with. Something run of the mill. Why take something special and deliberately make it ordinary.
We do not want to grind off the stripper clips and "true the radius" because it makes it look just like anyone elses rifle.
We do not want to "drill and tap" that beautiful receiver to hide the crest but then since all that character has been destroyed anyway by this grinding mania...
We do not want to add some unecessary 3 way safety, the original is perfectly fine, beside, those 3 ways totally screw up the curves of the bolt sleeve and the ones that cut the sleeve are even worse.
We do not want to put an inside the triggerguard release button, the way it is is perfectly fine and is very sanitary but then again some guys want to put those curb scrubbers on their Cadillacs too.
Forget "honing the action" they are fine as they are unless someone has been buying rusty ones.
Lap the lugs, ok I'll buy that.
Trigger, definitely. Double set triggers are nice and add class.
"can jury rig one or even shoot it as is for nothing, if you just shoot a mil surp iron sighted rifle"
Well let's see, if you wanna scope (nothing wrong with that) put it on a side mount, they look very cool and do the jay-oh-be, plus you can use your "iron sighted rifle" if you put on a trick bolt stop peep. One of those antique Lyman sights.
Yeah I think I can doo without the purple velvet, dingle-berries and white high heeled boots. I prefer a rifle with some character, not a high-priced just-like-everyone-elses high-priced-rifle.
Now I know both of you curmudgeons have built lots more firearms than me. I have built zero. Maybe that is the problem with custom builders. You get to believing what everyone else tells you will "do it right" without trying to do what you want to do.
Yep. I AM in a bad mood today.
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quote:
Originally posted by Roger Rothschild:
We do not want to surface grind. Why would ANYone want to do this and totally destroy the character of the receiver by grinding off that glorious crest. If you want to do that, sure, buy a CZ or a Turk that is worthless to begin with. Something run of the mill. Why take something special and deliberately make it ordinary.
I'm doing a project on one of the rare and fabled 'Die Grinder' Crest VZ-24's. It was a rough job - it needs some polish. Wonder how hard it would be to get the family crest on there...
As for safties.. I have nothing against the military saftey - in fact I like it. I'm going with a forward mount and scout scope on this rifle, so clearing the scope isn't an issue. But..for a hunting rifle - I personally like to keep the saftey on, as I nod off at 7:00 am while pointing a loaded rifle in who knows what direction. The military saftey requires rather large, (and often forceful) and noisey movements to set the saftey to 'fire'.
http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/1894/7x57JPG.jpg
It's an 09 action with Yugoslav trigger and side safety, reworked bolt handle, shihlen 24", original bottom metal with inside guard bow release, soldered mounts, Swarovski 6x42 and Churchill stock. All metal including scope and mounts matte blued in the same bath.
Go for it but junk the plywood.
[This message has been edited by 1894 (edited 02-22-2002).]
1894, looks fantastic,nice job, does not however look like everyone elses rifles as Roger says.
And I hate to even dignify Roger's "comments" with an answer. The Ellison argentines, Have you ever even seen the barrels on them?? I guessed not. They are rusted and worn out junk. I have no problem with someone leaving one of these intact and shooting with the military stock. His project was going a different route. I was also not suggesting that my outline was the only way to go but more the high end, or mid high. They will look like everyone elses rifles? Hardly, no one ever can even figure out what mine are. Take a prozac, have another six pack, pat your Savage and call us when the sun comes up.
BTW, Pacnor is a very good barrel, better than Douglas, add another $200 or so.
[This message has been edited by Customstox (edited 02-23-2002).]
Yes I have looked at Ellisons Argentines. I bought one as a matter of fact. All numbers matching, even the cleaning rod and none forced. Stock is excellent with intact cartouches, serial number and a couple of very small compression marks. Receiver crest sharp and clear, all edges sharp. Barrel is mirror bright with strong lands and grooves. The very first four 7.65x53 Norma cartridges I fired through it clocked 2598fps (180 grain bullet) and I put them into about a 1.5" group off the bench at the 100 yard line at the Cushman range here in Fairbanks. All this for $189.00 plus the $17.00 1st class with insurance mailed to my local dealer. You must be referring to a different Ellisons.
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Same Ellisons. You were very lucky, or we are dealing with a different reality.
!When I called them I told the guy who answered (I forget his name) how many m1909's he had left. He said, "two". I told him I wanted to buy one and was interested in the one with the best bore. He put me on the speaker-phone and then gave me a running description (including serial number) of the rifles. I choose the one I bought based on his descriptions.
Don't get me wrong when I say pimp gun. I like a pretty rifle too. I saw a Maurice Ottmar rifle based on an m1909 in one of the gun rags a few years back that is so beautiful it would make you cry just to look at it, it had more curves than a high school varsity cheerleading squad. Right there on the end of the bolt was one of those obscene 3-way safeties. On a rifle with no single flat area, here was one almost 3/4" square.
It had the same attraction for the eye as: when you have a serious discussion with your preacher and he has a booger hanging out of his nose, or gowing to parent/teacher conference and a thick black hair is growing out of your daughters' teachers nose or going to refinace your loan at the bank and the banker has a sparkling white piece of lint on an otherwise perfectly black jacket. It drew attention to itself. It looked out-of-place on that rifle. ow much do you think it cost? Lots I presume. Why can't a 3-way be made with curves instead of a huge flat side?
My perception is you and Ray have determined that given this particular platform there is "x" work that must be done, period, before it is usable. On this we disagree.
Now all of a sudden I am saying that all these things had to be done to it. Your assesment of my posting was very much in error and your "pimp" rifle comment was arrogant and ignorant as was your evaluation of Maurice's work. End of discussion with you my good man. Go back and read.
Chic
My comments about pretty rifles may seem arrogant to you but that is an observation. If you don't like it, fine.
My evaluation of Ottmars work is right on. I took that magazine and showed it to several people, some of whom could care less about any type of firearm and all agreed it was a work of art. You take exception to me not liking the design of whatever three-way safety was on the rifle? Fine.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I think I know a work of art when I see it. I also am not afraid to voice my observations on what I feel detract from the esthetics of a rifles lines. If you are offended that I disagree with you because I am "ignorant", fine.
Do I have to design an airplane to be able to say one is nicer to look at than another? Nope. Do I have to build a rifle to be able to say one is nicer to look at than another? Nope. Some think a David Miller piece is the best thing in metal and wood, I will say it has subtle lines but I do not like that look. Some say the early Mausers are really funky looking. I think they look quite elegant. I also think the flat, slab sided 3-way safety on the Ottmar piece detracted from its looks. You disagree and call me ignorant, if it makes you feel better, fine.
Have a happy day.
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You missed the whole point. Go shoot your military Argentine and enjoy.
By the way, shipping is $7.50, another one you missed.
[This message has been edited by Customstox (edited 02-24-2002).]
I usually stay out of these types of posts but your attitude and ignorance just begs to be responded to.
#1 - you do not build rifles. You merely attach a few parts and call it done.
#2 - There is a flat area on a standard military mauser action. Its right in front of the thumb notch on top of the left rail.
#3 - your evaluation of custom gun builders work may be taken more seriously IF you have ever built a rifle. Its called credibility.
I must be doing something right when you two (Chic and Bill) are reduced to name calling.
Let's see:
"take prozac, have another six-pack and call when the sun comes up". "Are we dealing with a different reality". "Put down the beer". "Get a grip". (Chic)
Additional comments about arrogance and ignorance. Implying I have a mental problem, am mentally imbalanced need medication and am a drunk to boot. I believe this is called "character assasination", that is rude is it not? Oh, I never mentioned the cost ($)of shipping, I just wrote, "+ shipping".
"Attitude and ignorance". (Bill)
To respond: Your intro, "I usually stay out of these posts but" appears to be trying to set yourself on the 'moral high ground'?
#1. Totally incorrect.
#2. Yes true it has always been there, we were specifically talking about the safety.
#3. This is fascinating. So Bill, no one can comment on whether a rifle is pretty or not, nor can they comment on the apparent quality or lack thereof, nor can they simply say "I don't like that because..." because they haven't built one or more rifles?
Gentlemen, I see you have silenced any disagreement from any other posters on this thread by making rude comments and unjust insinuations. Bill, your statement that without having actually built rifles one cannot judge the looks or quality nor can anyone voice their opinion whether they like or not like ("evaluation") is truly gross arrogance sir.
This thread is going no where. Chic we come back to the beginning. I believe a nice rifle can be made using a military receiver for under $1,000 and you feel there are things that need to be done to that receiver before it can be used, the sum total is it would be over $1,000. On this we disagree.
I will comment no more on this thread as it cheapens the good nature of this site.
Have a Happy Day!
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[This message has been edited by Roger Rothschild (edited 02-24-2002).]
I think the good folks here are gettin nothing of this conversation. I can't get you to see what I was trying to say so we might as well drop this or continue it via regular email. You likely have some good points to make but your attitude turned me off immediately. I also would be willing to bet that you are worth getting to know. send me an email at worthing@crcwnet.com. It would be great to turn this verbal tussle into a friendship and I do apologize for the comments about the beer and the prozac, they were out of line and undeserved.
Chic
[This message has been edited by Bill Soverns (edited 02-25-2002).]
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Howard
Moses Lake WA
hhomes@homesley.com
But then maybe you see so much similarity in upper end rifles because that is what works and if spending hard earned money for something "a step above" you want what works.
PS now that gold ring just screams PIMP-PIMP!!!
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Howard
Moses Lake WA
hhomes@homesley.com