I am considering the purchase of a Sig Sauer 80 Grand African in .458 Win. mag. It has fancy wood, finish and all. Question is whether the ruggedness and strength is there also when compared to a 98 design. The rear cam type locking lugs are different, non-rotating bolt and tang safety. The magazine is detachable which I do not care for. If this one were lost, I fear it would spend the rest of its life as a single shot. I haven't purchased it yet so criticism is welcomed. Any comments. This is the first one I have ever handled. What do you think????

Hello Mato Hunter - I'm slow this morning. I had to read your post twice - but eventually got the gist of it, but still couldn't quite understand what your problem was.

Having an example of each action in my gunroom, and my wife being absent doing wifely things, I examined both fairly closely with measuring and calculating gadgets in hand.

This is what I found wrt the bolt:

bolt stiffness: Sauer + 42%
locking lugs (in compression): Sauer + 65%
locking lugs (in shear): Sauer + 130%

I didn't bother to measure and calculate the relative stiffness of the two actions - but the Sauer would win that one hands down too. I would recommend that one always fit a scope to a K98 action just to stiffen it!

Aah - I just thought of two more things both totally irrelevant - in the "K98" - the 98 is an abbreviation for 1898 - while the Sauer 80 probably refers to the 1980s! The other one is that by the time the K98 appeared, Sauers had already been in the firearm business for almost 150 years.

Never had either design drop the magazine contents on me.

I ordered my Sauer 80 rifle with a spare magazine. It's a convenient way of packing the spare ammo in the field - and quick and silent to change.

The factory can supply extra magazines in exchange for paper..... :-)

Having grown up with the one and having moved to the other - there's no contest.

Go for it. Cheers edi

This rifle is another one of those engineering exercises wherein it is demonstrated that things can be done differently and still work, sort of.
They are very smooth in operation but have a number of shortcomings related to the design.
The first is common to all rear locking actions and that is, they are a little stretchy. This causes a load that is too hot to stick more effectively in the chamber.
This reveals the second shortcoming which is a lack of extraction power. This is common to all rifles using a less than 90 degree bolt rotation. The extractor cam is shorter and steeper. This is the reason one customer left a .375 in Tanzania.
The toggle trigger is just stupid. There is no advantage to it. there have been some good triggers designed and manufactured for many years. This isn't one of them.
The action, though strong enough from a safety standpoint, is fragile. This is a turnbolt action without the main advantage of a turnbolt which is simplicity.
I will always remember when a guy came into the shop to have his rifle checked out. He had fired three 7x57 rounds through his 270. It wasn't shooting particularly well and seemed to be kicking more than usual. It was after the third shot that he noticed he was using the wrong ammo. This was in a Savage 110 and there was nothing wrong with the rifle (except that it was cheap and homely). Soon after this another guy sent us his rifle, he had fired one 7x57 through his 270. The rifle was disabled. The stock was split. The magazine was gone. The cam ring which activates the locking "lugs" was broken. It was a Colt Sauer which is the same as the Sauer 80. It wasn't cheap and homely but it was broken!
In the end I think this is a rifle that is a good rendition of a poor design. But this is only my opinion. Regards, Bill.

Hello Bill - When did the incident occur and what was the factory's response to that catastrophic failure?

cheers edi

This took place about 1979 or 80. The factory's response was to take about 6 months to send replacement parts. I hasten to add this was through Colt and not directly through Sauer. Colt's response to a parts order for a 1911 might have been the same!
It was apparent that the pressure produced in the Sauer was somewhat higher since the case failed entirely. This could have been due to a difference in throating or in ammunition. The primers leaked in the Savage but not to the extent as occurred in the other rifle. The point is that the Sauer did not handle the failure particularly well although there was no real danger to the shooter. Also, though the rifle was not permanently damaged the repairs were costly.
During the course of everyday use this is of no consequence since most shooters would be satisfied to shoot the appropriate ammunition in their rifle!
I guess what I'm saying is; If an improvement to the turnbolt rifle was the goal then Sauer failed to accomplish this. They did a really nice job of not accomplishing it however! Regards, Bill.

Gentlemen

Another silly kraut gun with too much new and really bright "inventions" that can break down during a hunt
Field striping will be a nightmare if, to much small springloaded stuff
Another problem is that the spring for the fireing pin is very weak in case of a hard primer or dirt. Cases tend to strech when the lugs are in the rear of the action and case life can be short. I have a friend who hates detachable mags.
He dropped his on soft ground and the poor mag would't feed properly after that. He ended up with a jaming magazine rifle or a single shot with an storeage room for dirt, depending on how you see it

An winchester or sako is much better choice than this action.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

The comments already proffered are right on the mark. THe Sauer action/rifle is one of the most beautiful and slick actions ever created, but over-engineered to the point of being borderline unreliable. I would not hesitate to own one in one of the lesser, non-dangerous calibers ( a 270 for instance would be wonderful), but in calibers designed for the big boys, there is no way I would trust that bolt. jorge

Jorge,

What is it about the Sauer bolt design that makes you shy away from it for use as a dangerous game rifle?

Best regards.

The action lacks camming power in both directions. This is not a good trait for a DGR. The bolt features parts which are fragile (the little cam ring that actuates the locking struts or lugs). This doesn't mean the rifle won't work or that is entirely unsuitable. It just means it is not an ideal combination. It is, as I said before, an engineering exercise. Regards, Bill.

Bulliwyf: Bill pretty much covered it al, but I will also add the fact that the cams can be easily clogged with dirt and cause them to stick without the shooters knowledge, severely weakening the locking mechanism of the bolt. Too many delicate moving parts. BTW, I am actively hunting for one in 300 H&H

Bill and the other posters have provided good information on this rifle and l echo their comments. There was mention also that one in a 270 would be ideal. My experience with a Colt Sauer in this caliber was not a good one as l broke a firing pin and the bolt itself is a challenge to take apart not to mention the time involved with finding a replacement. On a positive note it is one of the smoothest bolt actiona ever produced IMHO.

I would suggest that a Sako or Winchester bolt action would be a better choice in a dangerous game caliber and good luck.