I've considered trying Tru-Oil on a rifle or two as wet weather protection. These are not new rifles and have had Linseed oil used on them throughout the years. Is this a problem? I wasn't planning on sanding the stocks down, since they are fine as they are when it comes to scratches etc. Or is sanding a requirement with Tru-Oil?

Any tips on the best way to use Tru-Oil would be appreciated!

Erik D.

www.riflestocks.tripod.com

try this sight for some useful information.
regards
rob

It will probably look good when you're done but I wouldn't count on it being waterproof in any way. Only slightly better than linseed oil which has no waterproofing ability at all.

Sheister,

I always thought linseed oil helped. It seems I've been wrongly informed.

Do you have any recommendations for stockoils that would help against wet weather?

Erik D.

HeJ Norge



I use Gunstock wax from by Clive C Lemon (CCL)



http://www.euroguns.co.uk/acatalog/Cleaning_Oils__Rods___Brushes.html



Cheers,



Andr�

I like the method of "soaking" the stock with a well diluted high grade tung oil based marine spar varnish until it's saturated and built up on the surface. Then sanding it all off when it's totally cured. You can then topcoat with almost anything after that and still have a relatively water resistant finish- the good stuff is in the wood.

Jeffery Den......
I use CCL as well as a top coat, but I allways thought it was just a combination of linseed oil and rottenstone. I never thought it contained any wax.
gunmaker

Does anyone know a way to get several layers of tru-oil off easy w/o scraping?? Doc Stone

Sheister
Why does Linseed oil work so well on window sills and not on gunstocks?

I use Tru-oil as a complete finish, but I don't follow the directions. I soak the stock for first coat with half thinner and half t-oil and then wet sand with the same mixture to fill the pores. Then I top coat with CCL which produces a fantastic glow.

gunmaker

No the oil does not, but they make a wax I just could not find a picture of it on the net but I have it. And it is ok but just wax

Cheers,

Andr�

I guess the only CCL I have used is the conditioning oil and I recommend it highly!
gunmaker

I use the conditioning oil myself and then I ad 20% of the Gunstock Grain Sealer for the last 5-6 layers then it becoms like caramel within 1,5 hour.

Cheers,

Andr�

Windowsills really aren't a fair comparison, but I'll try to explain as best I know, which isn't nearly enough.

Windowsills and almost any wood exposed to weather can and have been finished with modified tung oils, linseed oils, and other finishes for a very long time. Mostly because that was all that was available and many people just aren't amenable to change of any type. The fact is, that those windowsills and other exposed woods will pass moisture back and forth through the finish over periods of time. Since these materials are fastened in place, movement is at a minimum. Besides, we're not talking moving moisture like a sponge. What we are discussing here in gunstock finishes is micropores passing water droplets and smaller amounts of moisture through pores created through off gassing of the solvents in the finish or pores that aren't and can't be completely sealed with conventional finishes.
Since a gunstock must be held to the least possible movement to create a stable platform for the barreled action it must support, even small amounts of moisture moving through or being suspended in the wood (quite often figured) can and will cause uneven movement in the wood. Point of impact and other problems will and can occur at the worst possible times. I'm quite sure most of you already know this.
Even finishes that have been traditionally held to be "waterproof", "moisture resistant", or other descriptions aren't necessarily so. This can easily be tested by taking a number of identical blocks of identical wood (say, 1" square), dry them to the point they won't lose any more weight on a very accurate scale. Then finish them with any number of finishes and let them cure a month or so. Weigh them,then soak them in water or over a steam kettle for awhile and reweigh them. Unless you have used an epoxy or other non-porous finish that simply won't be permeated by moisture you will gain moisture weight in the blocks. If you don't, then that is obviously a very good finish to use for a stock if all the other attributes are to your liking.
I've finally been swayed to the dark side to seal my stocks with West Systems epoxy, let cure a few days, then sand to wood and then finish. What I've found is not only a very waterproof finish, but an excellent base for any other finish you wish to put on top of it. I'm currently using Tru-oil and having great success with it.
I've also been tempted to use Marine spar varnish like I have on my driftboat. It is definitely more "waterproof" than most stock finishes, but like most varnishes, it is way to amber for my taste and builds way too heavy for a classic look on a gunstock.
If you hunt in extreme moisture like I do, this becomes a serious issue. Even the snow here is mostly wet most of the time, so it can be a real problem during hunting season.
Believe it or not, the epoxy spray finishes put on by most of the factories are excellent- until they get a chip or crack in them. Then water gets underneath and creates havoc since these finishes are simply on top of the wood and not completely absorbed into the wood itself. However, many wood stocks from the factory don't havethe outer areas of the stock sealed- such as the area under the recoil pad, the action area, the action screw holes, and recoil shoulder mortise.

This subject can generate an awful lot of discussion and some of it will actually make some sense. As long as it is a positive discussion there is much to learn about this subject.
I know that I have switched to synthetic stocks for my foul weather hunts because I had to, not because I wanted to. With the tools at my disposal to seal a wood stock properly means I can finally start hunting my best stocks in extreme weather more and stop worrying about ruining them.

As usual, your milage may vary- Bob 'da Butcher

For waterproofing, linseed oil/Tru Oil is better than nothing at all! But not much. However, oil does make a beautiful-looking finish!

I soak my stocks for up to 12 hours(turning regularily) in a solution of marine spar varnish, urethane/tung danish oil and paint thinner(1/3 each). I then let dry for about a month and fill/finish with the same solution.

These stocks will bear up for two weeks in wet conditions with no problems.

About the only time I'll use tru-oil is when I want a higher shine to the finish. Then I'll apply 5-6 coats over the base finish.

Here's a picture

Wstrnhntr,
The question was about linseed oil on windowsills which is a completely different matter than lumping all the finishes available today as simply "oils". The fact is, most oils today are modified in so many different ways I can't begin to describe them all. Cross linked polymers, dryers, newer solvents, solids, and UV protectants are only a few of the additives used to make "oils" these days. My contention is that these oils and old school style boiled linseed oil are completely different animals. The newer oils are terrific for exterior finishes and I use them myself, but are not suited for gunstock finish.
I wouldn't use just linseed oil, any of the newer oils, or Truoil on a gunstock by itself for all the reasons I originally stated. This has very little to do with windowsills and the reason I stated this a lousy and invalid comparison.
Even with the improved oils on the market, if you allowed a gunstock to breath the amounts of moisture the exterior oils on the market do, it would be worthless to you as a stock.- Bob

Sheister
Good posts!
Isn't Tru-oil an alkyd varnish and not really considered linseed oil?

What about using a real vacum pump and "imbedding" some good spar varnish/mineral spirits mixture into the wood and then wet sanding with tru-oil? Would that stand up to your rain forest hunting conditions?
gunmaker

I think you're overthinking this whole thing. As long as the finish is rated to keep out moisture it will be a good sealer. The best I'm aware of is Marine spar varnish (not quite as good as epoxy but better than oils) and 2 part epoxy designed for marine use such as Industrial Formulators G1 and West Systems 105 Resin/207 Hardener.

As far as getting it into the wood there are a couple of options. Marine spar varnish will penetrate sufficiently in to the wood by simply thinning 50% with mineral spirits and soaking until it won't hold any more. This will take a surprising amount of finish. Then, you must allow it a sufficient amount of time to cure and off gas before applying your finish coats. I can't quote a definite time here, but most of the experts here on the board seem to think 30 days is sufficient and I tend to have the same experiences.

The Epoxies can be forced to penetrate the wood by simply heating the stock with a heat gun or in a sufficiently sized oven to the point of being almost too hot to handle. Then simply apply mixed epoxy until the wood won't absord any more. The warm wood will suck it in like a vacuum. The West Systems epoxy has a consistency when mixed of approximately 50 weight motor oil. Anyplace a dry area occurs after a few minutes you need to add more until it runs off after a bit. Once cured for the specified time by the epoxy supplier it sands readily like a good varnish and creates a perfectly sealed and smooth finish for the finish coats. For West Systems this is approximately 3-4 days.

In either case, end grain will take up much more finish than outside grain. These places will be obvious in most cases, but sometimes it is easy to forget that the front of the comb is end grain, as is the forend tip and front of the pistol grip. Coat the butt cut and inside of the action inletting and barrel channel also.

Once this is done, it won't chip or become layered on the outside of the wood like an "on the wood" finish will and water will play heck trying to penetrate it.



Something important to remember with epoxy finishes. There is a period of time that you can recoat these epoxy finishes before they cure that you will still get a chemical bond and create a continuous layer. If you exceed that time, you must wait for a full cure then sand the earlier coats and create some tooth so the epoxy has a mechanical lock on the earlier coats. For this reason, it is important to put as much finish on the first time to really seal the wood and fill the pores. A second coat is easily applied and will work fine if applied properly, but a good single coat will be the very best sealer you can create and almost bullet proof.

Another thing I found with the epoxy finishes is the ease of repair. I have a Fiddleback butternut stock that was on my 25-06 with some serious gouges in the wood from my clumsiness and a slip on a few wet rocks. A little sanding, raising the gouges with a hot iron/wet cloth, and I added some 2 part epoxy to the damaged areas while I was sealing another stock. After sanding the repaired areas, and adding a Truoil finish to the entire stock, the finish looks better than it ever did and you literally cannot see the repaired areas. Some of these gouges were the size of a dime!

I'd like to know if anyone else has used this technique and what your results were. I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to this point, but I now appreciate the simplicity and strengths of this technique. Of course, I had to be convinced by someone who actually had taken the time to amass the proof and had an environment actually worse than mine for hunting conditions- Southeast Alaska.

Until I find something better, this is the finish I'll stick with for awhile.- Bob

Thank you Bob,
Once again, a poster on AR has shortened my learning curve by many years!
JCN

???????

Here's the blurb on Tru-Oil straight off of Birchwood Casey's website:

>>
There is no better oil finish! TRU-OIL Gun Stock Finish is the professional�s choice for gunstock (or furniture) finishing for more than 30 years. Its unique blend of linseed and natural oils dries fast and will not cloud, yellow or crack with age and resists water damage. TRU-OIL Gun Stock Finish penetrates deeply and forms a tough, clear, hard finish that protects and enhances the beauty of fine woods. For a hand rubbed, satin luster, simply buff with steel wool and rubbing compound or use Stock Sheen & Conditioner. Excellent as a sealer for under butt plates, recoil pads and in inletted actions to prevent stock damage. Use the liquid for fast filling of the pores and the aerosol for the final finish.
<<

So it's "linseed and other natural oils." I believe I've read somewhere online that it contains polymerized oils, but I can't point to a reference. I could well be thinking of Lin-Speed.

Yep, it's Lin-Speed that claims to be 100% "refined linseed oil." Bet ya a nickel that's polymerized linseed oil. Check out the info here: http://www.lin-speed.com/

I think that Tru-Oil is a good finish for do-it-yourselfers to work with, because it's very EASY to work with and yet achieve acceptable results. I don't happen to think that it's a particularly tough and durable finish, nor do I think that straight tung oil is all that great, either. In fact, my experience with tung oil finshed stocks has been abysmal.

Earl Milliron produced better epoxy finish than anyone else as far as I'm concerned. I have a thirty-two year-old Milliron stock that he finished with epoxy that is absolutely beautiful, and the finish did not shrink back at all. The the pores are dead-flush to this day. Just one heck of lot tougher than Tru-Oil, Linspeed or anything of that ilk.

D'Arcy Echols and Gene Simillion use some sort in intercellular sealer first, then some kind of synthetic finish that looks like oil, but is super-tough. As I understand it, Gene took a stock so finished into the shower every day for a couple of weeks running with no ill effects to the finish, and D'Arcy has sent stocks finished in this manner to SE Alaska for spring bear hunts with no problems whatsoever.

James Tucker showed me hunting rifles that he and his wife have used for years, hunting under all sorts of conditions, and the finish has held up superbly well. Jim is another advocate of tough synthetic stock finishes, and his results speak for themselves.

Quite honestly, I think "traditional oil" finishes are passe for serious hunting rifles, but OK for maybe upland shotguns..............

AD

Simillion and Tucker (and I) use Daly's products, a company out of Seattle that specializes in marine finishes. Most of these are oil "blends".

I think Echols uses paint?

And by the way, I've seen large jars of True Oil in some of the highest class gunmaker's shops in Italy.

Echols uses paint only on his fiberglass-stocked Legend series rifles. He's still buried in orders for his walnut-stocked Classics, though, including three that I have ordered myself.

AD

SDH, I believe you know better.

Chuck