I just recently purchased a Rem 700 223 Classic. I want to keep the original look to it but I want to get it to shooting as best as I can. I am planning on shooting it first to see how good it shoots as is, but I know that in the hunting elements the stock could swell, etc. So, do I go ahead and have it pillar bedded or burn powder and run bullets through the barrel first. This is my first 223 so if you have any historically good loads you could save me some powder and pass the data on to me.
In my experience it will either shoot really well or not at all. Ususally the .223's shoot pretty well. I'd try some good 55gr factory ammo in it and if it shoots <1 inch groups with any load its a keeper. I'd sugggest you put in a good aftermarket trigger from shilen before you bother with the bedding. You will typically see a much bigger improvement in grouping with a good trigger. If you have a dremel tool you can make a substantial improvement by simply glass bedding the front and rear tangs of the receiver and first 1 inch of the barrel after the recoil lug. Free float the rest of the barrel.-Rob
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001
I agree with the gunsmithing 101 rule #1 establish a baseline accuracy for the rifle first, if it doesn't shoot fairly well out of the box, then you can decide how much you want to invest in getting it to be a real shooter or dump it and start with another one.
I would never bother shooting any rifle without first bedding it. It is unlikely that the factory bedding is all that good and any testing would be meaningless. Unbedded it may shoot great today and lousy tomorrow. Regards, Bill.
That was my thoughts on it. If it shoots now it looks like it would shoot as good or better after I bedded it. Then I would not have to worry about it moving point of aim or losing accuracy later because of different conditions.
quote:Originally posted by MW of Texas: I just recently purchased a Rem 700 223 Classic. I want to keep the original look to it but I want to get it to shooting as best as I can. I am planning on shooting it first to see how good it shoots as is, but I know that in the hunting elements the stock could swell, etc. So, do I go ahead and have it pillar bedded or burn powder and run bullets through the barrel first. This is my first 223 so if you have any historically good loads you could save me some powder and pass the data on to me.
Thanks.
MW Congrats on the new gun/ as for loads my 700vssf in 223 likes Hornady 55VMax and 52 Bergers and H335 with Rem 7 1/2 or CCI,Fed. s.r.primers...also VV133 with same bullets...seating depth makes a big diff in grouping...with 20x Leupold and bags at 100yds with BR type prepped brass .010 off the Bergers have given several high .2 low .3 five shot groups, after fireforming,bbl break in and molly coated bullets with cyroed bbl to extend life of the good shooting bbl. it likes the VMax almost as well...good luck and good shooting!!!
Posts: 687 | Location: Jackson/Tenn/Madison | Registered: 07 March 2001
Do yourself a favor, have the stock pillar bedded, the barrel floated and the wood in the barrel channel sealed. Then have the trigger adjusted by a competent gunsmith to 2.5 to 3.0 lbs. After that is completed, send the entire barreled-action, with the bolt to CryoPlus in Wooster, Ohio and have it cryogenically treated to remove any residual stresses that Remington put in it via machining and button rifling.
After all the pieces are back, use 242 Loc-tite to mount the scope bases and rings. Then take the rifle out and break the barrel in.
If you follow this discipline for this and every rifle that you purchase you are going to be much happier, and the rifle is going to shoot consistently well for as long as you own it and keep its barrel clean.
To bed first or shoot first? I got a new Super Grade Winchester M 70. I stripped it to see what it looked like inside. When I saw the recoil lug channel I yelled, S#&t! And got an echo. That's a lot of hole to fill. I won't shoot it until I fill the hole.
Posts: 631 | Location: North Dakota | Registered: 14 March 2002
MW, What is the twist rate on the barrel? That should determine the bullet weight to some degree.What kind of range are you planning to shoot? I agree with the guys on bedding the action and free floating the barrel. An accurized .223 is good out to about 900 yards with a mid weight bullet. Most loads go subsonic at that point and your groups fall off. Personally I prefer a 77gr molly coated round. Pumba, does the cryo place in Wooster have a web address? Ray, I thought you were Murphy! LOL! ------------------ Happiness is a warm gun
[This message has been edited by Mike Smith (edited 04-06-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Mike Smith (edited 04-06-2002).]
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002
MW, may I join in by advising not to overlook the factory crown, I am a Remington 700 user and will tell you, you will reap huge benefits by a little attention to this area. I agree with the ones who fix all pryor to wasting time, powder, bullets, just to find it needed the tune up. About the time your rifle came out Remington decided to increase trigger weight spring tension, you can get a nice replacement from Brownell`s listed as Holland spring kit for 700`s. Your gunsmith will know what I`m talking about. Good Luck and try the reccomended H335, let those 50 gr Ballistic Tips lightly touch the rifling, it will make you proud!!!
To me, the all-time classic mistake is to take a new rifle and start hacking it up without a single accuracy test. Just how do you know what your "improving" on if you don't know what you're starting out with? That rifle might have been capable of one-hole groups right out of the box (and yes, I've owned 'em) and any alterations might accomplish nothing but to decrease accuracy by about 200%. I've seen it happen, and I agree with Ray on this one.
Shoot it first. Any necessary alterations can come later.
A factory rifle may are may not shoot great, most likly not. Shoot it first to try and see which one it will be, then you can start tinking with it if it not up to your expections. jjdero
Before you can establish a baseline you must first decide what that will be.
Are you using the out-of-the-box as your baseline, assuming the factory bedding is good?
Unless your stock is a cheap foam one I see no benefit to what has come to be called "pillar bedding". Purchase a "Brownells Acraglas" kit at your local sporting goods. Follow directions to bed your rifle. When you are done be sure to relieve area under the recoil lug so it cant bottom out.
Now you have a baseline from which to work.
Wally
Posts: 472 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 08 March 2002
Get it all right first and all your left with is load development only, I certainly have shot and checked rifles and now do it all before load devlopement. I dont want to use up a good barrel on a poorly bedded, heavy trigger, nicked crown, type of rifle before going to the range. I bought a 700 VSSF .223 that was traded in because it would`t shoot as well as his friends VS, honestly made me a little nervous, but after all the bedding and polishing the crown and adjusting the trigger, I shot a 5 shot group that measures a dead nuts .200" group at 100 yds. I have not had a day at the range yet that it did not give a group in the .3`s. I have NEVER seen a rifle respond negatively to these improvements. You cannot convince me otherwise. I can certainly understand anyone going the other way though when they only have a hacker gunsmith to do business with. I do all my own.
[This message has been edited by Tim in TN (edited 04-07-2002).]
