There may be more good news for Short Action enthusiasts.
Montana Rifle Company received a great offer from Ruger. They will deliver both RH and LH molds for the M1999 Short Action at a discounted price if we do them both together. While that was the plan anyway, we did not expect the substantial discount. We’ve decided to launch the Short Action program earlier than planned to take advantage of this offer.
Effective immediately, MRC will accept orders for a “Charter Issue” program on the Short Action – magnum, standard, LH or RH, stainless or Chrome Moly – all at one great price of $350.00. Delivery is 20-26 weeks after we start molds.
As in the LH Long Action program, a minimum order quantity is required to begin mold production. For the combined LH/RH program, that quantity is 300 units. We will not run credit cards or cash checks until we hit this milestone. The program will deliver a maximum of 600 units at this great price. Serial numbers will begin with B03-0001 and run through B03-0600. Unique serial numbers are available at additional cost. We already have a number of orders in-house. Some of the serial assignments may change as our customers commit funds or change their preferences due to the announcement of this program.
To get on this list, call Dan at 406-755-4867.
Here is our progress as of 2/7/03: 208 units
MH1 - mh CWM01 - cm CWM02 - cm Elkslayer - gm R BRICKEY - rb KG - kg EPB-1937 - rb EMA-1964 - rb EAB-1965 - rb Joe Ragno - jr THMPR - bh D Allen - da EVDOKYIA - ph William - ph John - ph JLB-03 - jb HAMMER-03 - ah 01071992 - ts 325Montana - rr NICK - kc 777 - kc 7777 - tw DUMONT#1 - D1 0001 - pe 0002 - pe 0003 - pe 0004 - tm 0005 - tm 0006 - ja 0007 - edh 0008 - edh 0009 - rp 0010 - ds 0011 - rs 0012 - gvb 0013 - lc 0014 - bh 0015 - bh 0016 - re 0017 - re 0018 - re 0019 - re 0020 - dt 0021 - dt 0022 - pc 0023 - ts 0024 - db 0025 - jm 0026 - hr 0027 - hr 0028 - js 0029 - tc 0030 - ps 0031 - ps 0032 - ps 0033 - ps 0034 - kc 0035 - ra
DB Bill: The M1999 action is complete. Screw in a barrel, minor inletting into a M70 SA pattern stock, mounting M70 LA Express bases, a scope and you're ready to lock & load. Notice I said LA bases. For M1999 both LA and SA use the same bases. I have to commend Burris for making a two piece base that fits all M70 actions. Could be prettier, but they work.
Sniper has it right. The box internal length is 3.150in, which should allow up to about 3.125 with reliable feeding. Thanks to the 6.5 WSM wildcatters for some good info.
Richard's Microfit stocks can make whatever you want.
Rod actually I was talking about the stock, or are all of the Model 70 patterns the same? I was thinking the Classic actions were a little different and the Montana action had the same print as the Model 70 classic?
Sambubba & Sniper: Just last week I viewed a superb Short Action M70 Classic drop-in example done by Dennis Olsen for Mel Smart. Mel owns the pattern and evidently he is gearing up to do volume on the short action. Give him a call for particulars. 406-257-9003
Posts: 24 | Location: Star Meadow, Montana | Registered: 02 January 2003
Rod. have you or will you ship your s/a to canada? I am looking for a small bolt face action to build a gun for a "new" cartridge called the Tact 20. It is based on a .223 case necked down to .20 cal made by tod kindler @ the woodchuck den. Would your s/a fit the bill?? Thanks
Northwes67: Sounds like a new thread brewing here. Your project would better be served on a different product than the M1999 Short Action. We've a meeting scheduled tomorrow to discuss the "Next" model, the M2003 Mini.
Fact finding first...like we did for the PH. Then CAD.
Forum goers, please resist posting suggestions for that product here. Give me a chance to set up the discussion.
Rod@MRC.....put my order in for 2 Short-action, stainless, w/magnum bolt-face....guess I better order my McMillan stocks soon....I love it when a plan starts to come together. Thanks for passing on the great price on the actions.
Posts: 4360 | Location: Sunny Southern California | Registered: 22 May 2002
Northwester67: There are currently no plans to offer a .376 bolt face in the Short Action. Because of a full plate, we've decided to push the mini out a ways.
What are the dimensions of the bolt face for both the standard and the magnum short actions? Meaning what family of cartridges will they work for? I'm fairly confident the standard will satisfy the .473,(.308win) family but what about the magnum?
On one of the other threads about your actions I remember one poster asking about some specific cartridge, your advise to him (I think) was to order a standard bolt with a magnum extractor (or something similiar).
But could you make it a bit more simple for those of us who are technically challanged and mention which family of cartridges will function through the standard and magnum actions without mixing extractors or other parts?
Incidentially, this question did not interfere with me placing an order yesterday for one of each.
Now, if Boyd would offer their JRS Classic stock for a SA Winchester I'd be in hog heaven. Could you work on them about that?
Posts: 452 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 15 November 2002
Elkslayer: I recall hearing from Dan about that "serial number". I hope I can fit it on the receiver ring. Haven't tried more than eight characters yet. B03-xxxxxxxx. The bolt faces we'll machine will be .473 and .534. We'll talk to Boyds, most likely at the Shot.
The .534 face/magnum extractor will fit all WSM derivatives. And the few belted shorties like 350 Rem, if anyone should ever decide to chamber for that one. The .473 and standard extractor is .308 and all it's cousins. Also the 300 Savage and its derivatives. In magazine boxes, we'll probably limit the startup to two. 260/708/308 and the WSM family. Boxes aren't to hard to make but you have to buy a bundle of them to get a good price.
The mag extractor/standard bolt face was a result of my own work on a 6.5-284 Norma. It feeds empty cases with the action upside down. They pop up under the extractor in the first 40% of travel and extract super reliably. Ejection is about 30 degrees forward of straight out the port, and they truly fly. So the .284 case is a little bigger in the groove, but rebated to fit the .473 face. Most Ultra's need a touch of work on the mag extractor for the same reason.
Posts: 24 | Location: Star Meadow, Montana | Registered: 02 January 2003
TGWH: The length was easy to work out. 3.150 internal, which takes care of .284win just fine. and 6.5-284 Norma too, with 140gr bullets seated way out there. Or 6.5 WSM if you want to go that way.
Feed rails and box widths are another issue entirely.
Posts: 24 | Location: Star Meadow, Montana | Registered: 02 January 2003
Is 3.150" longer than the mag lenght of a m700? If so, will it work good for a 6mm remington, seated long and still work in the mag? If anyone had the lengths of a m70 and m700 handy, that would help. I would be loading 87 grain bullets and less. I just don't want to be magazine limited.
Thanks in advance,
Ian
Posts: 39 | Location: Watson Lake, Yukon Territory | Registered: 24 December 2002
Ian, the Rem 700 mag is about 2.85 to 2.90". You can work them a little longer by modifying the magazine box and receiver opening. The 3.125 of these SA MRC's should be perfect for the intermediate rounds (of which the 6mm Rem is one). - Dan
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
The long action weighs 44.5oz on our PitneyBowes calibrated scale. The short action is not complete enough to weigh. No mag box, no bottom metal, no followers, etc.
Here are the first two prototype shorties. Straight from the austempering salt bath. Need to be blasted & buffed.
Rod, why did you go with the .330" spacing on the rear bridge like the M70 express action? There appears to be plenty of metal to allow use of the normal M70 spacing, my M70 300 WSM uses the normal spacing. The reason I ask is because the .330" spacing rules out the use of dual dovetail mounts, which I use on everything I can. Burris makes a dual dovetail base for it but it overhangs the ejection port, a no-no for me. Can someone ordering one of your actions specify the mount hole spacing or at least request that it be left un-drilled and have the gunsmith drill & tap it?
Boltman: It came down to making something available for everyone. Most one-piece bases would not fit our longer ejection port. The only rig that worked was the express one-piece using the rear hole instead of the front hole. But with the rear hole in that place, .860 spacing pushed the front hole too far forward.
It's certainly not too late to rethink this as volume production is a few months away. What I would like to see is a solution that accepts a one-piece base, dual dovetails, and windage mountings. Good ideas are always welcomed.
Rod.....a custom rifle built on your new short action deserves more in the way of mounting a scope than a 1-piece base...the ugliest of mounts. There are a ton of nice 2-piece bases around so something should fit your action with a more typical spacing of the holes.
Posts: 4360 | Location: Sunny Southern California | Registered: 22 May 2002
Rod, put me down as lobbying for the standard M70 spacing vs. the .330 spacing. Either that or leave the rear bridge undrilled and let the guy doing the barreling drill and tap it. So far I've made it through life with only putting a one-piece base on one rifle, and God permitting I'll never put another one on a rifle. As I said before, I much, much, much, prefer dual dovetail mounts to any other fixed mount. Actually, I think the best option is to allow the buyer to specify that the rear bridge be left untapped. That way anyone wanting the larger rear mount hole spacing (like myself) could just have the gunsmith mounting the barrel drill and tap the rear bridge. Surely any gunsmith worth his salt could do that in a few minutes. If I were to buy one of your actions with the mounting holes drilled as shown (express style), the first thing I'd do would be to instruct the gunsmith to fill them in and re-drill them properly. You shouldn't have to do that on a custom action.
quote:Originally posted by Rod@MRC: Boltman: It came down to making something available for everyone. Most one-piece bases would not fit our longer ejection port. The only rig that worked was the express one-piece using the rear hole instead of the front hole. But with the rear hole in that place, .860 spacing pushed the front hole too far forward.
Rod, one more vote for using the regular "hole spacing"!
I see your point about accommodating the only possible 1-piece mount. But by doing so, you exclude all the standard 2-piece mounts. That is not a good trade-off! In particular not, since any sane person would use 2-piece bases if at all possible!
You probably designed yourself out of the option of using a 1-piece base when you extended the loading port on the short action. It was still a good idea to do so - being able to accommodate the "x57" family of cartridges in the short action! Yet every design decision has implications elsewhere, in this case the difficulty of using a 1-piece base. Too bad. It would have been a LOT worse if it was not possible to use 2-piece bases.
To all the people suggesting leaving the action undrilled/untapped as an option: special options are a LOT more difficult to accommodate in a manufacturing process. Without specials, it makes no difference whether customer X receives action #Y or #Y+1. As soon as you introduce specials, the entire manufacturing process has to be set up for being able to specify and track the specials on each individual item made. Car manufacturing companies have done this for years, but they are in a slightly different class than MRC (sorry Rod, no offense intended :-). I know that there are already a bunch of options for the actions, e.g. boltface, magazine, extractor etc etc. I suppose it depends on where in the manufacturing process a particular step is "customized" whether customization can be achieved at a reasonable cost or not??
FWIW - mike
[ 01-22-2003, 23:03: Message edited by: mho ]
Posts: 6653 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: 11 March 2002
All: your arguments are compelling. I'm also in the camp for favoring two-piece bases over one piece but was not willing to abandon the latter without some input.
Once freed of the one-piece dilemma, we can put the holes at whatever spacing and whereever needed. Pitch some ideas for your favorite bases. Measure 'em up and tell us where that front hole should be. How far back from the front edge of the bridge. I'll assume .860 spacing unless someone tells me different.
rod, i have five of the various actions ordered and maybe one or two more sold. i would prefer to use easily availible bases and wouldn't feel the need to have to have a one piece base. i am partial to the dual dovetail system.
I'm not positive on what bases I'll use on the actions I'm buying, I've thought about fabricating one piece base/rings, or barring that using commercial 2 pc bases, either dual dovetails or Talleys.
I agree with the others that the market for one piece bases will be mighty small, to non existant!
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001
I can see the topic of sight hole spacing being one that reasonable people might disagree on, but it would be great if you could use consistent spacing across all lines when possible. You indicated earlier that the long actions, both right and the to be produced left would have holes to allow use of the Winchester bases.
Clearly with left hand actions being produced, hole spacing for two piece bases will be needed. I don't think I have ever seen a one piece base with a left had ejection cut out.
Assuming the contours are the same, It would be great if the short actions could use the same bases as the LA. I assume the standard Winchester spacing allows the use of the forward hole on the rear bridge and the front two receiver holes, does that dimension work on the M1999?
Just a question about your Magnum actions, I read on another thread they will have a .800 bolt face Dimater is this correct ?? May enquire into what these are priced at and if I wanted one is it a possibility to get it to Australia ??
This would be the ultimate for .585's & .600 OK's and the like if it has a .800 bolt face !!
Posts: 7505 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002
Sounds like we should look at hole spacing on the long action too. This might be more difficult to change soon without delaying production, since they're machining about 30/day right now.
We'll get on this tomorrow and try reason it out.
PC: The PH has a .805 bolt diameter. Target price is in the mid $600's retail. We'll be talking to exporters at the ShotShow next month.
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