Well I went and sat down with my local gunsmith - Dick, yesterday after choosing to lay out the barrel and primo Jim Wisner goodies (3.5" barrel sight sleeve & .720" euro banded ramp fs w/ hood) for it in the old John Rigby pattern (Thanks JWisner for your input!)...



Starting with the '35 Chilean action (came with '09 Argentine or Peruvian? hinged floorplate bottom metal!) but will pickup some .404J bottom metal in the near future. Anyway just wanted to get the barrel work started with my gunsmith in the meantime as I have had a healthy credit with him for about a year now. We went over everything and he is OK with it. So...of course I now need to come up with .404 Jeffery reamer(s) and headspace gauges.

Any thoughts here?

I suspect that there are several options wrt throats. Any differences in the way this cartridge is listed - .404 Jeffery, .404 Rimless Nitro Express, .404 Eley Rimless (in Mauser catalog) and I seem to remember someone (Ray?) mentioning that the Kynoch ammo was also made with a .418" bullets??? I can of course rent the reamer and guages or maybe someone here has a "known good" set that they'd be willing to loan/rent out? ...always interested in comments / thoughts from the "well-seasoned" guardian angels who watch over this site!

FWIW - this barrel is a cut-rifled 1-in-14" twist, .423", 8 groove - 25.75" x 1.25" barrel blank - suspecting this is an older "APEX" barrel based on some other factors.

Anyone have any experience with www.reamerrentals.com ?

Thanks again! Jeff P

[ 06-05-2003, 00:55: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

Jeff,
I am having a 404 Jeffery made with Montana Rifle Company's new PH action. I just orderd a Lothar .423 barrel. I ordered the barrel as a blank, unthreaded and unchambered.

John Ricks will be putting the rifle together for me. He will be doing the reamer work. I am confident in his ability to give me a rifle that I will not have chambering problems with.

Here is a link to his site, give him a call.
John Ricks Rifle Maker

Hope this helps! Looks like a great looking rifle you are having made! Here is a picture of what I'd like mine to look like


[ 06-05-2003, 01:07: Message edited by: Rusty ]

Is the Chilean a standar length action? How much does it have to be opened for the 404? I am not familiar with the cartridge dimensions.

What is the actual bore on a 404 Jeffery?

Red

Rusty,
One other thing that Ray recently made me aware of is that L-W will be offering their barrels in an H&H barrel profile. Does not match your nice "very Mauser" rifle but something to remember. I really love the original Jeffery and Rigby patterns, but had to make a choice. I like that barrel sight sleeve that JWisner made up so decided to go the Rigby route.

DagoRed,
I read your Q's but I will let others more knowledgeable than I in this area answer them. There are two "bores" from what I understand - .418" and the more standard .423" (groove diams).

JP

[ 06-05-2003, 04:42: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

If your smith does not have access to .404 reamers, than one can assume he has not built one before. I would strongly consider finding a smith with .404 experience (unless you have a supply of actions and barrels to practice on).

Try this site.
http://www.reamerrentals.com/38_caliber_&_up.htm

They have 404 Jeffrey listed.

I will also add this. Just because the smith doesnt happen to have the 404 in his shop does not mean you should go to someone else. He may not have the reamer in house because there may not be much call for it. To the best of my knowledge chambering a 404 is no different than chambering a plain ole 30-06. Bigger case and bore diameter are about it. Opening the bolt face and modifying the ramp and feed rails on the action will need to be done also. But the smith probably already knows that.

[ 06-05-2003, 04:26: Message edited by: Bill Soverns ]

My smith usually just orders/buys new reamers from Dave Manson as need be, but I just offered to come up with these as I figured that there are a few sets gathering dust out there in TV land...and that *maybe* I could work something out with someone - ie. rent, sell, trade,?. I have no problems buying these to suit my project as well if need be.

In all honesty guys, this gunsmith is extremely capable and has built some of the nicest and accurate guns that I've seen in these parts, be it bolt action, single-shot, lever-action, doubles, muzzle loader, etc...no questions in that department. As the saying goes he's probably forgotten more than most know as he's 72 years young. Recently had both cataracts done and now has 20/20 uncorrected vision.

KurtC - ...not really a valid assumption in this case as he retired at one point and only 4 years ago was lured out of retirement to come work for a new place as a "head gunsmith" and to impart some of his knowledge to the younger guys working there as well. He has worked at a few different places over the years. I don't know if he has ever built a .404 Jeffery before specifically but I do know that he has built a number of DGR's during his lifetime.

Pfeifer,
I had read Ray's Post about the original contoured barrel that were available. After some consideration I really wanted the "Mauser" look.

I found a nice piece of Walnut at WATTS WALNUT
That should be here next week. I'll go with some tradition 4 panel checkering, top it off with a red recoil pad!

I am all excited about this! Now it isn't going to Africa, but it like starting to get ready! YeeeeeeHawwwwwww!

Jeff

If I had known you were going to make the photo that large I would have wiped some of my old dirty finger prints off the part.

It looks like I will have to be making some 404 Mauser guards sometime late this fall after I get the CNC's and other equipment moved in.

Jim Wisner

Your confidence in him is what matters. I only caution folks so that there is no disappointment later on. Taking your own parts to a gunsmith is like bringing your own food to a restaurant and asking them to cook it. If something goes wrong, both parties end up pointing fingers.

The .404 really is like no other cartridge, in size and shape. Making one work properly in a standard length 98 takes a skill that is usually learned from experience. I wish you all the best and hope yours turns out as nice as the one in the photo.

Jim,
My apologies! Sorry about the size of that sleeve picture I was going to shrink it but just hadn't got to that yet! BTW guys that is dye-chem on that top surface and not my drool! I just love this sight sleeve as it is sooo classic. Jim, I was trying not to "publicly" let that cat out of the bag - ie. that you were going to do a run of 404 J bottom metal - to give you some "breathing room" as you requested a while back. But maybe we can get a few more to opt in on these, as it sure seems that there are quite a few .404J's going together :-) Maybe you can talk about your .404J bottom metal differences/features so as to enlighten others to the various choices out there in this area??? Some like drop boxes, others classic lines...we are all blessed to have such very talented metalsmiths to draw upon!

Rusty,
I share your enthusiasm as well. That is sure a nice Mauser and with the MRC PH action that will be a beauty. A few years back, I picked up a nice dense Am Blk walnut stump blank from Wright's Gunstocks. Doyal is a great guy to work with and comes through Boise with a pickup full of blanks to pick through occasionally. I'll check out WATTS WALNUT as well.

A great time to say THANKS to all for being so supportive to "us" starting new projects. I got another email yesterday separately from someone else "perhaps" about to embark on a .404 J project on another '35 Chilean. So many decisions to make in going through all this!

[ 06-05-2003, 08:52: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

KurtC,
Fear not, the project is in the best hands with John! There will be no problems with the large PH Montana Rifle action! The rifle will look remarkably like the "Mauser" pic. Most importantly it will be what I wanted! Gosh. this is great fun!

Pfeifer,
I too enjoyed speaking with Doyle. He has some very nice blanks. I went with Robert at Watts because of price on a particular blank.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Just thought you all might like to "see" an update on my '35 Chilean .404 Jeffery project. I received the PTG reamer and gauges from Elk Ridge last Sat. My gunsmith had to make a precise fitting pilot to fit the .415" bore diameter of this .423" groove diameter barrel. Also picked up a box of factory Kynoch (Kynamco) .404 Jeffery (400 grn Softs) and some other loaded ammo with different bullets for trial in the chambering process. Dropped these by the shop Monday ...Stopped by the shop this morning and snapped these pictures of the just fitted and chambered barrel. The profiling and fitting of the above PME rear barrel sight sleeve and banded front sight are happening today as well. So hopefully more pictures to post soon. :-)

Sure many will recognize the beloved Kimball vise!




[ 07-02-2003, 23:32: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

Pfeifer, the vice was the first thing I saw (and the bag of bing cherries). Unfortunately they are not making them any more (the vice, not the cherries). Mrs Kimball is trying to find someone to build them but no luck so far.

Good luck with the project.

[ 07-05-2003, 03:13: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Damn

I hate you guys, now I might have to convert one of my lovely Zg-47's to a 404

Would a matching pair be a 404 and a 9,3X64. later on I guess a 416 rigby is a must

This is not right, hanging around here gets expencive and I will get silly questions from the police asking for a new license

Pfeifer, good luck and if you don't like the rifle contact me and I will send my address, it will get a good home with lots of care
/ JOHAN

I hope to post another picture(s) of the profiled barrel early this coming week. I went back to the shop (to pickup the reamer and gauges) armed with my trusty HP digital camera on Thursday and the barrel was well into the profiling stage - alot lighter in contour, but only after a well running bit had broken. It was reground but Dick was just getting it cutting right again. Things were well when I left 15 minutes later. I suspect it is alot farther along now. He was working on getting the .892" step setup for the PME rear barrel sight sleeve. Then onto profiling the front of the barrel for the banded front sight.

Chic - Would love to see some picts of your 9.3x64 Brennke on the Global Trading M98 Safari action sometime :-) I need to round up a barrel for mine next.

Those Bings are from one of my two cherry trees. We are in "fat city" with cherries at the moment. The Bing is trailing off and the other larger tree - a Lambert? is just starting to ripen, so we usually have them til the end of July.

Johan - From what I understand that classic ZG-47 would make a nice platform for such a classic cartridge! Would like to see one of these actions someday. Just missed the opportunity by just minutes last Saturday! Maybe think about getting your order in with Jim Wisner for another set of 404 Jeffery bottom metal then too. :-)

[ 07-06-2003, 01:30: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

Went to the shop today and was pleasantly surprised to see the following

Thought that we'd get a sling barrel band fitted up now that we have a better idea on the sizing -about .825" to .835". Also going to move the rear sight band rearward about 1/4" and make the "bell" slightly deeper and sharpen up the transition. Will also dish out the part of the barrel between the front and rear sights a bit. Barrel is all of 25" from the front edge of the receiver to the muzzle. After we took the pictures we also found a NIB Canjar that fits up just nice as can be. My only thought there - Is this an appropriate trigger to use in this application, as it will require removing a bit more wood than another brand such as a Timney, RifleBasix, etc. Sure is a nice trigger though! ...Thoughts?

Ray - Would love to hear your comments on the barrel :-)




Also snapped a picture of the wood that I picked up from Doyle Wright's Gunstocks which I will probably use on this .404 Jeffery. I have a couple to choose from. My gunsmith just loves the layout in this piece of wood...nice dense American Black Walnut stump wood....



[ 07-07-2003, 23:48: Message edited by: Pfeifer ]

looking good!