While reloading for a newly acquired .270 WSM (M70 laminated), I discoved a little problem with it. When loading from the magazine, the cartridge "catches" on something when the bolt is about 3/4 of the way closed. It appears to still be angled upwards slightly, like it's still trying to align with the chamber/bore. At this point it's under the extractor, but something's just not right. Watching closely, I can see the extractor stretch a little and push away from the bolt body as I push the bolt on in. This seems to get everything lined up and the round chambers. Pull the bolt back to the point right before the round is ejected, and you can run the cartridge back into and out of the chamber without this binding action. It's just that first stroke. I can see on the side of the cartridge (right on the bottom) where a small amount of brass is being scraped off, presumably during the "alignment" that occurs while the extractor shifts.

I know my description of this condition isn't perfect - it matches my knowledge! - but can anybody provide any insight into this problem? I'm kinda hoping to avoid returning it to USRAC, as my dad is fit to be tied waiting to shoot this thing. I picked it up for him and will start some intial loading, but he's ready for the Fourth when he finally gets to take possession. I'd hate to show up for our visit without his rifle...

DR---

That's a classic failure to feed from the rails properly. The case is not being pushed up quick enough to align the case with the chamber.

DON'T allow the edge of the chamber to be radiused like a M-98. It's an invitation to a ruptured case, bent bottom metal, and dirty shorts.

It *might* be fixed by adjusting the space behind the extractor claw....it *might* need the sharp edge of the rail cut back a few thousandths. It *might* need a wider magazine box or the skirts widened, but it would have to be examined by someone that knows exactly *what* needs doing.

Welcome to the uncertain world of the short and wides.

Jack, thanks for the reply. I was afraid that we were facing the dreaded "feeding problem" that these short mags are apparently so famous for. I had hoped to avoid that as my little brother did with his .300 WSM.

Would you recommend returning it to Winchester? Or are they even competent enough to diagnose this and repair it? Considering I live in the most bass-ackwards state in the union, I'm not sure I have any other options, unless someone out there in cyber-space knows a decent NM gunsmith. Alternatively, is one of our AR gunsmiths in a position to work on this if that's what's required?

The old man is gonna be disappointed. He hasn't bought a new rifle in 30 years, so he's been anticipating this with much glee, not to mention it's supposed to be his primary rifle for next summer's safari.

More ideas/comments/feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

Oh yeah, I'm assuming it's a bad idea for him to put a few rounds through it at this point. Is that correct?

[ 06-30-2003, 06:28: Message edited by: DesertRam ]

I bought a new Win Featherweight in 7-08 that would have driven me to drink if I was a drinking man. In it the nose of the cartridge would pivot to far across the chamber mouth and hang up. I sure could have used some knowledgable help but feeding problems seem to involve black arts and the two gunsmiths I talked to did not impress me with their knowledge. I am not a gunsmith but I finally got it to feed. Along the way I also ran into the same problem you are having.

One problem on mine was that the sides of the magazine box were pinched in and that is easy to adjust to a point. It doesn't look to me that the front of the box was designed to be wide enough to allow the cartridges to stack properly and I filed the outside of the box down where it slips into the receiver until the rounds would stack. Beyond that I went through a long process of bending the feed lips back and forth until I got it to work. It still doesn't seem to push the back of the cartridge up under the extractor fast enough and I am wondering if part of the problem could be that the magazine spring is to weak. I have not touched the feed rails in the receiver. The opening already looks to wide to me and as they say that metal is hard to put back if you remove to much.

In fairness to Winchester my rifle may have fed factory ammo fine but I have never fired factory ammo or even used new brass in the rifle. I thought I had it feeding once and then had problems again. I finally realized that the ammo I was using to test it was full length sized. I did a lot more tinkering to get it to feed neck sized brass. In short, probably your best choice would be to send it to somebody like Jack who really knows what they are doing.

Howdy,

DesertRam, give Greg Richards a call. He is in Hobbs, and can do a decent job on that for you. I had the same problem with mine, but tweaked it myself until it feeds reliably. I just won't do it for anyone else!!! BTW mine was 7mmWSM

Greg's phone is 505 392 1515

Coach

Marc and Coach, thanks for the input. After discussing this with my father last night, I think we've decided to return the rifle to Winchester to let them at least take a stab at it. After all, it is a brand new rifle. It's never been fired, so there should be no issues related to them trying to fix it. Failing that, I'd be glad to let Greg work it over for us. Were it mine, I'd probably just drive it over to him (I'm in Las Cruces) and see what he could do. I'm sure it would be faster, and maybe even cheaper in the long run. I might even get in some prairie dog shooting while I was over there...

Thanks guys.

DesertRam,
What you probably have is heavy 'pinch' of the extractor on the cartridge as it is feeding up into the bolt face. You can check this very easily by taking the bolt out of the rifle, aligning the extractor with the locking lug, ( this is the possition of the bolt and extractor during feeding) then take a cartridge and slip it up under the extractor. It should take only a light force to do this. If the force is heavy, bend the 'tail' of the extractor away from the bolt body. This tail should only lightly touch the bolt. You want the extractor to just hold the cartridge on the bolt face without dropping it.
Good luck,
Headache

I had to send mine back to winchester. The gun would not allow a fired case to chamber even after it was resized. it would cut a curl of brass like you are decsribing. The chamber was way off. 8 weeks later the gun was returned and works fine now and they did NOT mess with the great trigger job or screw up the pillar bedding. It feeds very nicely and makes a nice pair with my M70 416 rem. which are both so much smoother than my rem 700 that I'm thinking of getting rid of it. Don't worry they can feed smooth as any CRF they just need to be timed right which is the case with any mauser clone or derivative.

Well, we solved the problem without a return to Winchester. The problem lies not with the rifle at all! Instead, we tracked it down to a bad lot of brass. I hauled the rifle up to my folks' for the Fourth just so the old man could see and handle it before we shipped it back. Coincidentally, my brother had his .300 WSM there as well. Just for the fun of it, we tried to cycle the .270 WSM brass in the .300 (which has no feeding problems), and WHAM!, failure to feed. Hoping for the best, we dashed to the nearest local gun shop, grabbed a box of factory .270 WSM, and ran several rounds through the rifle. Every one fed flawlessly.

So, all is well with the rifle. At the range, we found that even the bad brass would feed from the magazine with one or two rounds in the mag. The only failure to feed occurs with only one round in the mag. To say that my dad was happy was an understatement. He was even more pleased when several of my handloads churned out 1" groups off our mediocre rest. This rifle really likes max loads of H1000 (150 grain Hornady soft points) and Varget (90 grain Sierra HPs).

Now, what to do about the brass? I think that that either the rim is too thick, or the extractor groove is too shallow. Should I try to get Grafs to take it back, or go straight to Winchester? Of course I sized and primed all two hundred rounds, but only loaded 75. Any advice?