I picked up a Sako Riihimaki over the weekend and I have some questions. This is basically a project gun as it came in a very poorly fitted aftermarket manlicher stock.

I'm pretty sure this gun has been rebarreled as it has a very light contour .223 barrel on it now. The only markings on the 24" barrel are "223 REM" and a small "TM" on the very bottom. The receiver seems to be opened up a little for the longer cartridge (sort of like they opened up the interarms mk X to fit a .375 in it) I'm also sure the redfield style rings and bases are aftermarket.

Everything else seems factory including the box magazine and hinged bottom metal. So a few questions:

Is this a 461 or vixen or other?
Opinions on the aftermarket scope bases?
Is there a good aftermarket stock?

All help, comments and or criticism welcome.

Weagle

Weagle, this is a bit of a surprising gun you have. It seems to be a mixture between a basic L46 action/bolt (shroud mounted safety, old style trigger), and L461 bottom metal and magazine (no detachable magazine).

My guess is as follows: the L46 used detachable magazines, and depending on which version of the action you started out with (including magazines), it may have been difficult to modify to the (longer) .223 Rem cartridge. You can tell the previous owners had to modify the action by opening it slightly. At the same time, they probably resolved their magazine and feeding problems by introducing what looks like a bottom metal and magazine from an L461 - or possibly after-market?

Alternatively, Sako was famous for shipping guns put together of "left over" parts from a previous production line. So it could be possible the bottom metal and magazine came from the factory. I have never run into this configuration, though, and the fact the gun has been modified (barrel, action opened) makes it very likely the bottom metal and magazine were added later.

The Redding bases/rings are after-market, but as long as the integral bases have not been drilled, no "harm" comes from using that setup. If the looks of the rings bother you, there are other options available.

Your barrel is definitely after-market, otherwise it would have different markings.

Apart from lack of collectors value, there is no reason this should not become an excellent little rifle. The action should be very smooth. Hopefully, the barrel and installation will be up to scratch and shoot as well as you'd expect from a Sako. On the other hand, the .223 Rem is normally an easy caliber to work with.

Do you want a wooden or synthetic after-market stock?? It could be a bit of an issue to have the gun inletted correctly, due to its part L46 and part L461 (?) setup. Not impossible though - probably calls for a custom inletting.

- mike

P.S. The more I look at your pictures, the more it looks to me as if the magazine might also have been altered. Doesn't it look as if the magazine has also been filed at the front??

MHO,Thanks. That’s exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Everything you said makes sense. There is an extra hole on the bottom of the receiver ring that was probably there to hold the housing that held the detachable magazine. Also, the inletting on the stock that came with the gun is very sloppy around the bottom metal. I think I can rework my existing stock to look ok.

Thankfully, The top of the receiver has not been drilled. The redfield bases are missing the set screw that tightens down at an angle through the top to hold the bases in place on the receiver, but I really don’t like the idea of marring the checkering on top of the receiver, so I’ll probably buy some regular factory bases.

I don't think the magazine has been filed, Just a bad photo.

Weagle, the factory rings/bases are very nice (apart from the screws, which are notorious for getting threads stripped), but they are a bit pricey. The best thing about them are the synthetic inserts, which stops you marring scope tubes. Other than that, the factory rings are a bit outsized.

Other options for mounts include Leupold - they are simple, cheap and not nearly as large as the factory mounts. Some people have had problems with the Leupolds coming part under recoil, but I have used them for years without problems. On a .223 recoil should not be an issue.

Although not the prettiest option, I have used Weaver bases with Burris Signature Zee rings of late. Like the Sako factory rings, the Burris Signature Zee rings have those lovely synthetic ring inserts.

Warne also used to make Sako rings, and perhaps also Conetrol. But I have not used either mount.

- mike

I agree with all of Mike's oberservations about this action. It is almost certainly a "put together" L46 with L461 bottom metal. No reason you can't make a nice custom gun out of it.

The lack of set screws in the ring bases is not a problem. In fact, later Redfield bases did away with the set screws entirely since they found that, properly installed, the tapered dovetail system just gets tighter and tighter with use. I think you'll find the forward offset scope ring unnecessary with most scopes, so you might want to replace it with a standard ring. If you want new rings altogether, there is none better suited for the L461 than the Leupold ringmount. It is light, somewhat adjustable fore-and-aft, and is much tougher than people give credit for. I have one on a lightweight .375 H&H and no problems in 10 years.

Stonecreek, Thanks. Do you have a pic of the Leupold mounts. Do they have a base, or do the rings attach directly to the dovetail in the receiver?

Here's a pic of the stock it came in: a rather strange 3/4 length setup with a barrel band on the end. I'm planning to cut it back to a regular sporter contour.

Weagle

A quick trip to the mitre box and a little shaping and it looks a little more like I want. Anybody know how to shape a nice schnabel?

Weagle

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
Stonecreek, Thanks. Do you have a pic of the Leupold mounts. Do they have a base, or do the rings attach directly to the dovetail in the receiver?

Here's a pic of the stock it came in: a rather strange 3/4 length setup with a barrel band on the end. I'm planning to cut it back to a regular sporter contour.

Weagle

The Leupold mounts I have attach directly to the integral bases of the Sako receiver - no separate bases. I personally find a lot to like about these mounts - price is very reasonable, the mounts are not too obtrusive, etc etc. However, I went to the Leupold website to see if I could locate a picture, and it looks as if Leupold may have switched to a system using a separate base....

The only Sakos I have seen with a barrel band were the full length stocks. Other than the missing checkering on your stock, it very much reminds me of a factory Sako (palmswell and everything) full length stock, which was refitted to the new (longer?) barrel. No Sakos came from the factory with a 24" barrel in a full length stock.

I like the way you managed to reshape the stock, it looks like a great start to me.

- mike

Thanks. This rifle definitly needs to be reconverted to .222. It is very tedious to get factory .223's to fit in the mag and feed properly, and a loaded round will not eject as it will not clear the chamber completly. It is basically a single shot proposition in it's current configuration.

I'll be looking for a .222 barrel to get it back where it needs to be.

Weagle

Not many calibers are sweeter than the .222! That action was perfectly sized for the .222, and I would not be the least surprised if a .223 was a tad long - sadly.
- mike

Here's a link to a photo of the Leupold Ringmounts.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=623852

They are probably the lightest and most compact made for a Sako, so they do especially well on something like a .222.

BTW, great work with your mitre box!

Thanks for the link.

Went ahead and mounted the scope in the existing bases, but switched the rings for a lower, non extended set. I'll be switching to the leupold or factory rings that attach directly to the dovetail, but these should work fine for a little accuracy testing.

Weagle

If I can see the serial number correctly, it would indicate that the action was built in 1957 (1956 -35900, 1957 -40117). That sure is a nice gun!

BTW, the correct caliber for the L46 is not .222, but the 7x33 Sako

JTH, that is tantalizing, where do you get your serial number information from, and is it available publicly (Web)??

- mike

Mike,

My source is the book "Arma Fennica", by Timo Hyytinen and it has all serials for Sako, Tikka, Valmet and almost all other Finnish weapons until 1985, when the book was printed.

(And, of course, I live about 300 meters from the Sako factory... )

For these reasons I haven't ever searched the serials from the web, don't know if you can find them there.

My experience is that you do not want a base on these sako tapered dovetails that has one side of the base fixed, and the other movable. Any change in the for and aft location of the scope or one ring will result in the scope not centered above the bore, or not being in line with the bore. The old Sako rings have an adjustment on both sides of the base. This allows you to center the scope above the bore regardless of where the front ring is on the receiver, and it also allows you to make windage adjustment. The dovetail style you have are better in my opinion that the leupold, and the old sako's are even better. They are still easy to find either on E-bay or at a gun show.

If I knew how to do it I'd post a pic of a couple little sako sporters in .222. One by Thomas Shelhamer, the other Al Lind.

John

JTH, Thanks for the serial number info. I sort of figured mid to late 50's, but I coulnd't find any real source for date of manufacture.

Weagle

Weagle, by all means. You are sure dressing her pretty for her 50th birthday, good work!

Here seems to be a link for Sako Collectors' Club, they probably have good info too: http://groups.msn.com/SakoCollectorsClub/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us

JTH: I had no idea that the book you cite even existed. I assume that it is written in Finnish? The Sako factory is infamous for failing to keep records, or failing to make what records it has available, so the existence of a somewhat authoritative book is of great value. Is there any chance of some enterprising person translating it and republishing in English? It would likely sell well enough in the English-speaking world to pay for the effort.

The serial number information on the Sako Collectors club website is compiled from the purchase dates reported by Sako owners. It is a little bit hit-and-miss, and of course is only indicative of Sakos imported to the U.S. It is greatly appreciated and somewhat useful, however.

quote:

Originally posted by JTH:
My source is the book "Arma Fennica", by Timo Hyytinen and it has all serials for Sako, Tikka, Valmet and almost all other Finnish weapons until 1985, when the book was printed.

(And, of course, I live about 300 meters from the Sako factory... )

JTH, thanks for that. Do us another favour, will ya please?? Publish the full title, author, publisher and ISBN here, please?? Maybe the book can still be found somewhere, in which case....

Alternatively, a scanner, the book and e-mail also works - assuming there are not zillions of pages to scan. Needless to say, we could not copy anything for commercial gain, that would probably violate copyrights etc.

Is Sako (and you) still in Riihimaki (sp?). And where is that in Finland??

- mike

P.S. I just googled the book title you mentioned (Arma Fennica), and this is what one webpage contained:

quote:

Author: Timo Hyytinen
Language: Finnish
Format: Book (Illustrated)
Other Book Editions: -- Select here to view --Illustrated Jan 1987 edition
Publication Date: January 1987
Publisher: Unknown
ISBN-10: 951998870X
ISBN-13: 9789519988702

Would that be the one??

And a further hit which might of interest: http://en.luovapaja.fi/people/arma-fennica-oy

Weagle, This would be the Weaver style on a Sako medium action. The advantage to me is the QD scope swapping ability. All and all you have a very interesting Sako. Remember,

"Those that know shoot Sako."

You probably should not throw away that barrel band. Keep it as trading material for Sako collectors. Some L-42s and transitional L-46s came with barrel bands and were NOT full length stocks. (I still have one of the 7x33s, and that is exactly the way it came from the factory (and still is).

Edited to clarify...it did not come looking as your stock & band do. It came with a standard length stock, a "military-style" tangent rear sight, and a barrel band. The safety on my rifle is also different, being on the LEFT side of the cocking-piece shroud.)

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
P.S. I just googled the book title you mentioned (Arma Fennica), and this is what one webpage contained:

quote:

Author: Timo Hyytinen
Language: Finnish
Format: Book (Illustrated)
Other Book Editions: -- Select here to view --Illustrated Jan 1987 edition
Publication Date: January 1987
Publisher: Unknown
ISBN-10: 951998870X
ISBN-13: 9789519988702

Would that be the one??

And a further hit which might of interest: http://en.luovapaja.fi/people/arma-fennica-oy

Yes, that is the very book and the contact information for Timo Hyytinen is valid too, I think. The book that I mean, is the Arma Fennica 1, which you can see there. The book is written in Finnish, but it also has large part of it, including subtitles, some articles and weapon information also in english, so you can really understand most of it. You should maybe contact Timo Hyytinen straight by email, since he has his own publishing company, and could probably be the best person to get you in contact with that book.

I don't know if you guys know, but Timo is actually quite a famous gun designer, who used to work for Valmet and he has for example done quite a large part of the designing work of the Valmet 412 gun series and lots of other stuff, for Sako also.

I'm actually a bit amazed that this book isn't better known, since as you point out, it should have found buyers abroad quite well.

If you are going to make a multi-million-€ book order from Timo, you can mention that you were pointed to his direction by Jouni from Riihimäki I will probably meet him again next August.

And yes, both Sako and I are situated in Riihimäki at the moment. Sako has been here longer, since the 1920's and Riihimäki is about 60 km north of Helsinki.

Let me know how it goes with finding the book.

Thanks Jouni, much appreciated.
- mike

quote:

Originally posted by JTH:
If I can see the serial number correctly, it would indicate that the action was built in 1957 (1956 -35900, 1957 -40117). That sure is a nice gun!

BTW, the correct caliber for the L46 is not .222, but the 7x33 Sako

????? I thought mine was an L46, it is a 222 and marked as such just in front of the receiver. The barrel is marked "Bofors Steel" on the right hand side of the barrel. Wouldn't the 7X33 designate a 7mm? S/N is 472XX.

Joe, I think what he was saying is that the original L46 chambering was the 7x33. As soon as the .222 rem was introduced, Sako started chambering rifles for it.

weagle

quote:

Originally posted by weagle:
Joe, I think what he was saying is that the original L46 chambering was the 7x33. As soon as the .222 rem was introduced, Sako started chambering rifles for it.

weagle

Thanx weagle, us old guys are easily confused! Have you seen my glasses? Never mind, found 'em.

Yep, the L46 was made in .222 Rem also. I just think that the 7x33 is the sweetest calibre for the L46. It is also the only rifle chambered for that cartridge. Nothing serious

Joe, you rifle is apparently made in 1960 (1959 -42773, 1960 -54000).

Thanks, JTH! Love to have one in 7X33 to play with.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Young:
Thanks, JTH! Love to have one in 7X33 to play with.

Joe - If you ever get a 7x33, I might be able to fix you up with a little ammo. I have a substantial supply of original Sako 77 gr.FMJ 7x33 ammo on hand.

The 7x33 was originally introduced in the L-42 Sako (the predecessor to the L-46). The L-46 was chambered in it, the .222 Rem., the .22 Hornet, and the .218 Bee - perhaps some others also, don't recall offhand, but have owned those. Still have the 7x33 and the .222......

OK, what the heck, it only takes a couple of minutes so here they come; serial numbers of Sako L42/L46 model by production years:

1-6 prototypes for tests around the world
7-813 serial production guns 1942-1946

1947 -2400
1948 -4200
1949 -4700
1950 -5100
1951 -7000
1952 -10800
1953 -13800
1954 -19500
1955 -29000
1956 -35900
1957 -40117
1958 -41000
1959 -42773
1960 -54000
1961-1964 -57000 end of consecutive numbers

1964 part of the rifles were also given number from the 80700-series.

The big variance in the numbers produced between different years is due to the policy of producing larger numbers of guns for big orders, most often to USA and until the next came, they were produced in lesser quantities.

I hope this helps you L46 owners out there. I've been looking for one myself lately

JTH, Thanks, so much. I just printed that out and stuck it in one of my reference books. Very valuable and hard to find info!

Weagle

JTH:

I know it is an imposition, but could you possibly post the serial numbers for the other Sako actions -- L461, L57, L579, L61R? All most of us have to go on is a list compiled on the Sako Collectors website from individuals who purchased Sakos new and recorded the dates on the hang tags. Sometimes they simply recorded the date of purchase, so the SN list, helpful though it is, is somewhat compromised.