I was wondering if anyone would be able to provide me first hand experience/knowledge in regards to the Terrco K-Star gunstock duplicator. Positives, Negatives, etc. I'm very interested in purchasing one and am very close to doing so. So I'm wondering if anyone be able to provide me with any good feedback or suggestions.

Thanks, Mike

I looked at buying one but thought it a bit light and underpowered. If you are just doing your own work and not trying to make a living at it then the machine might serve your purpose just fine. I ended up buying a CNC router and starting from there. Sure would be a shorter learning curve with a manual duplicator though!
Blair

quote:

Originally posted by alvinmack:
I was wondering if anyone would be able to provide me first hand experience/knowledge in regards to the Terrco K-Star gunstock duplicator. Positives, Negatives, etc. I'm very interested in purchasing one and am very close to doing so. So I'm wondering if anyone be able to provide me with any good feedback or suggestions.

Thanks, Mike

Mike,

I have a Terrco twin spindle machine that I purchased approximately 5 years ago new. I have not kept exact records of the number of stocks, but I would estimate the number to be close to 75. The machine was used more the first few years I had it.

Before that I was doing all stocks completely by hand. I have never worked with a stockmaker that has had a duplicator (or even met a stockmaker) so everything I have learned I have had to learn on my own. I had no idea there are so many things that you must be aware of when duplicating. Early on that caused a lot of frustration and some mistakes. At this point the machine and I have reached a sort of “understandingâ€. If I am conscientious it will usually reward me with a good duplication.

I typically use the machine to “get me close†for the inletting and then do the final inletting by hand. I have made some temporary clamps to take the “play†out of the middle of the stock so the inletting is more accurate. I am planning on improving these braces. I am also going to build a dust and shaving trap that will hopefully draw most of the dust down and into filters, so as to keep the shop much cleaner.

So far I have not had any breakdowns, and when ordering cutters from Terrco, they have been very prompt and helpful.

There are other aspects I will likely think of, so I may come back later with some more information. If you have any specific questions I may be able to help also. If you want, you can come over with some wood and try it out. I am about 4 hours east of you. PM me if you like.

Jim

Jim, thanks for the really great information. I appreciate your reply. At this point it's about %98 that I will be coming home with one this weekend. I will be in contact with you as I imagine I will have many questions about the kinks of this machine.

Thanks, Mike

Just to satisfy my curiousity, how much does one of these cost?

from factory they wont make a gunstock
good for firewood production

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:
from factory they wont make a gunstock
good for firewood production

??

quote:

I have made some temporary clamps to take the “play†out of the middle of the stock so the inletting is more accurate. I am planning on improving these braces.

I investigated purchasing a duplicator at one time (after trying another guy's "Duplicarver" which was absolutely worthless for gunstocks becasue it flexed so much)and what I was told was that the Hoenig-Rodman duplicator was the absolute best duplicator out there not only for the engineering that went into it, but also for the ingenious work holding method which holds the wood absolutely still so it doesn't flex during the process. (I believe no longer available new, and very expensive used.)

As noted by pdhntr above, many use braces to help put out an accurate product.

If you look in Tom Turpin's book on the David Miller company you can see photos of the rather elaborate set of braces/clamps that Curt Crum and David Miller crafted for their homemade duplicating machine to keep the wood absolutely still while duplicating.

Edited: Miller's self made duplicating machine looks almost exactly like Sterling Davenport's self made machine as pictured on pages 181-185 of the Gun Digest Book of Riflesmithing. I believe somebody here on AR once mentioned that the set of plans for those duplicators originated from Harry Lawson who was (is) another stockmaker from Tucson AZ.

Most of the quality of the finished part that comes off the duplicator comes from the operator. First and foremost the setup and leveling of the machine is the most important step. I don't care who you buy a duplicator from, by the time the machine ends up in your shop and jacked up high enough to work on SOMETHING will have moved and the machine will require careful leveling and setup to insure accurate cutting. This first step should take at least a day if you want to do it right the first time. After the setup is done properly, most of the rest of the quality of the finished part comes from the skill of the operator. IMHO very little of the quality comes from the machine. However, the speed of the job can vary greatly from machine to machine. I used to train customers that bought $10k machines and were VERY frustrated with the junk they were producing. Of course, the sales pitch did not spotlight this frustrating learning curve.

I haven't used the K-Star, but I have used the Northstar. I found the Northstar to be a slower to operate machine than one that used a router. The head of the NStar didn't tilt and this left a little more wood to remove later than one with a tilting head. I think the K-star has the tilting head feature. I'm not sure of the cutter RPM though. I have a variable speed control that I plug my router motor into and find this an invaluable feature. Helps to keep from burning the wood during certain operations. I'm not sure what the several different the Terrco machines sell for. If you don't plan on using one very much you might look up Lester Brooks. He has a set of plans to build your own for a very reasonable amount of money. You would also better understand how important the setup of the machine would be. His machine can turn out a good product. As they all do, it takes an experienced operator.

Here's a few links
http://www.terrco.com/woodcarvers.php
http://copycarver.com/index.htm
http://www.dust-n-shavings.com/pantograph/pantograph.htm
http://www.mykaguitars.com/tools/carver/default.htm
http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=17816&st=0

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
Most of the quality of the finished part that comes off the duplicator comes from the operator. First and foremost the setup and leveling of the machine is the most important step. I don't care who you buy a duplicator from, by the time the machine ends up in your shop and jacked up high enough to work on SOMETHING will have moved and the machine will require careful leveling and setup to insure accurate cutting. This first step should take at least a day if you want to do it right the first time. After the setup is done properly, most of the rest of the quality of the finished part comes from the skill of the operator. IMHO very little of the quality comes from the machine. However, the speed of the job can vary greatly from machine to machine. I used to train customers that bought $10k machines and were VERY frustrated with the junk they were producing. Of course, the sales pitch did not spotlight this frustrating learning curve.

Very well stated, and I couldn't agree more.

Yes, the head on the K-star tilts.

Jim

Thanks for the great added information James! pdhntr1, I will definetely be in touch once this unit is sitting my garage after this Sunday!

i have a k-star machine sitting in the junk pile
the star drive for the buttstock and the tailstock are machined from factory quarter inch out of alignment
also have a 2 spindle dakota and the spindles are 3-16 out of alignment
no set up in the world will make those machines cut accurate without re-maching the tailstocks

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:

also have a 2 spindle dakota and the spindles are 3-16 out of alignment
no set up in the world will make those machines cut accurate without re-maching the tailstocks

I remachined the Heinrich push clamps on the tailstock of the duplicator I built and have no problem machining very accurate parts.

On the Dakota machine there is usually enough clearance in the mounting holes of the headstock bearing plates and the mounting holes of the heinrich clamps to align things lengthwise. First you would need to establish the height of the each tailstock on a surface plate to insure they are all parallel and the same height. The bar they mount on must also be straight. If you clamp the tailstocks too much then the bar will no longer be straight. Your machine isn't junk, it just needs to be aligned properly. Double spindle machines are much more time consuming to dial in. But, well worth the effort. If you call Dakota they may let you use the alignment tooling or send you a print to make them.

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:

also have a 2 spindle dakota and the spindles are 3-16 out of alignment
no set up in the world will make those machines cut accurate without re-maching the tailstocks

I remachined the Heinrich push clamps on the tailstock of the duplicator I built and have no problem machining very accurate parts.

On the Dakota machine there is usually enough clearance in the mounting holes of the headstock bearing plates and the mounting holes of the heinrich clamps to align things lengthwise. First you would need to establish the height of the each tailstock on a surface plate to insure they are all parallel and the same height. The bar they mount on must also be straight. If you clamp the tailstocks too much then the bar will no longer be straight. Your machine isn't junk, it just needs to be aligned properly. Double spindle machines are much more time consuming to dial in. But, well worth the effort. If you call Dakota they may let you use the alignment tooling or send you a print to make them.

Learn something new everyday. I've got one of those, haven't used it yet. Thanks for the information.

quote:

Originally posted by Gus:
i have a k-star machine sitting in the junk pile
the star drive for the buttstock and the tailstock are machined from factory quarter inch out of alignment

Well, I just checked my machine and can't find any measurable difference. It's good to go.

Jim

We've been running the one we have for three years, absolutely no problems, not fast by any means but depending on the operator, very good results. Have done about 30 stocks and several other projects. If you take the time to keep the thing clean, greased and in alignment, it will do whatever you want. For our shop it was a great investment that has paid for itself three times.
Walt

Well this duplicator is now in my garage. What happened is I found a business that was closing shop and was able to purchase this machine from them. What types/brands of cutters would anyone recommend for gunstock carving? As far as duplicating a rifle stock it seems real straight foreward, but do these machines have the ability to semi inlet a shotgun stock?

KY, this post is totally worthless without pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by alvinmack:
Well this duplicator is now in my garage. What happened is I found a business that was closing shop and was able to purchase this machine from them. What types/brands of cutters would anyone recommend for gunstock carving? As far as duplicating a rifle stock it seems real straight foreward, but do these machines have the ability to semi inlet a shotgun stock?

Mike,

I have searched around for cutters from other places and couldn't seem to find the left hand ones. (I am assuming this is a two spindle machine.) I would think they are out there somewhere, but I couldn't find them. I finally just ordered from Terrco. I think their prices are reasonable. In the past I emailed Terrco and requested info on the available cutters. They emailed me a pdf of the pics and cost of the cutters.

With respect to shotgun stocks, I assume you are refering to the inletting of the butt stock. I have not tried to do any. I am not sure how you would do them. I am guessing it involves a couple of jigs that fit up into the screw hole in the butt stock. Don't know. You can get the outside by using centers, and then maybe drill the hole for the screw. Afix the butt stock to a rod that fits tightly in the hole? Inlet top and part of front and then loosen the stock, turn it 180 and tighten down again. I don't think the stock would have to "revolve" to do the inletting. I don't know for sure.

If you like, I can get more info on the cutters (I use) later today and get the info to you later tonight or tomorrow.

Jim